I. Wait. Big Question. Time to look at the connections! Rick Potvin, the … Larouche Cryonics Movement fellow, wants to know…
How can the Larouche organization be duped by the Mars lander hoax?
I wonder if Larouche’s organization has been infiltrated… which is what Rolf Witzsche suggested to me. Rolf points out how Larouche’s NAWAPA, fusion and ice age ideas can’t be right. Here’s Marsha.. now much older than when I first read her.
But before we get too far on this course… on the point of Rejection.
The level of rejection seems to be on the level of demonic to me. It seems beyond natural in an evil way. I’m quite convinced something more deeply evil than I’ve ever considered before has come to grip the minds of men. It’s not a case, which I thought, of simply presenting better arguments this way or that on various issues. There are clearly malevolently motivated humanoid types who are beyond reason. Something else is going on, on Earth.
My mind is all aflutter. He rejects an aspect of the Larouche organization — somewhere where they did not conjure up a vast conspiracy — and sees a possible “infiltration”. Something demonic must be at work here.
II. Campaigns Conclude in Michigan; Washington.
Newspaper chimes in with last minute “Don’t forget to vote” … in races we barely murmured because, well… nothing big happens until November… Under the assumption that he will advance, wouldn’t anyone interested in voting for someone other than him want to know everything they could about Jim Postma, Tom Cramer, John Orlinski and Dave Christie?
There are a few ways of going at the election results here. I note that the late returns have expanded Adam Smith’s percentage, and edged Dave Christie down fractions of percentage points. So where we once stood with Adam Smith at 60.3 percent and Dave Christie at 3.3 percent we now have Smith at 61.9 percent and Chrstie at 3.12 percent.
But a better comparison is with someone like Tom Cramer, who was running to the left of Smith as a Democrat charging Smith with selling out to corporate interests and etc. 7.13 percent. Or John Orlinski, who advocates for Glass Steagall — 5.55 percent. The rest of his program must have settled better for Glass Steagall advocates than Christie’s.
Bill Roberts in Michigan
Syed Taj …. 59 percent; William Roberts … 41 percent
Or. An embarrassing percentage. I can easily see Roberts winning this race in a world where McCotter didn’t implode and thus bring attention to the race. It was very nearly a blind race of no impact; as such Taj ran the gambit and alerted the public to the meaning of the race and pulled it out by a “landslide”.
Roberts expenses. Roberts has collected $8,992 from individuals through this election cycle. He reported $577 spent on yard signs from Sawicki & Sons, $221 in banners and $369 in printing from Detroit Print Shop. He also spent another $600 in signs from Buildasign.com in Austin, Texas.
After coverage of this sort, into the liberal blogosphere with some Standard criticism of the DSCC leader and the choice of candidates challengers arriving at the notice Syed Taj vs a Lyndon LaRouche freak (MI-11)- (Obama’s score: 50%, Dem 2010- 39%) and on the conservative blogosphere the laments. On the Democrat side, the choices are a Muslim doctor and a supporter of Lyndon LaRouche (the Democrat version of Ron Paul). Onto discussions:
I remember the nutter LaRoucheys when I was a silly teen in the 80′s going to Mondale/Ferraro rallies (I’m embarrassed to admit that but I wasn’t old enough to vote…and that loss knocked me out of hard-core politics until 9/11…) on Boston Common.
I just had to explain to my sister about the LaRouche nutters. She sees them and thinks they are Conservatives because they sport Obama as Hitler posters. I explained to her not to be fooled and said the same stuff DS pointed out in her column.
I told her to focus on how young all the supporters are (and they were in the 80s too) because all that freak can get is young dummies to shill for him. If you’re older than 26 and still support LaRouche it means you go out of your straight-jacket and escaped the Asylum!
Dr. Syed Taj of Canton will be carrying the momentum of a long list of endorsements into Tuesday’s primary.
His opponent, William Roberts of Redford, has received an endorsement from the Lyndon LaRouche Political Action Committee.
Roberts said he was spending the final days of the campaign trying to shape policy in Washington, D.C. “We’re doing that and are out in the neighborhoods with high visibility deployments calling for the ouster of President Obama and the passage of the Glass Steagall Act,” he said.
Way to pound the flesh!
Here’s Taj’s next opponent.
Bentivolio repeatedly for appearing in a low-budget, Michigan-made film that spoofs former President George W. Bush. In “The President Goes to Heaven,” a fictional president lies comatose while nurses berate him for ordering aircraft to be flown into two buildings in New York on — as the film has it — 1-11.
Bottom line from the organization’s point of view: The powerful intervention of the LaRouche candidates’ slate into the Congressional elections, as a NATIONAL VOICE, had a profound impact on the primary elections August 7th, in Michigan and Washington state. Hm. Just about none, actually. Particularly in Washington State…. where, well… Scenese from the Dave Christie campaign
“You don’t come into the neighborhood with pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache,” said Larry, one of the people angry with the posters. “Take that Hitler mustache off, and we can have a dialog.”
People surrounded the table and berated the LaRouche/Christie supporters until they packed their things and left the sidewalk in front of Starbucks.
That said, I agree with the others that Christie knew exactly what he was doing and got exactly what he deserved. At best, this was a huge political gaff. At worst, it shows Christie to be a complete idiot. Either way, I think it’s safe to say that his political future is about as bright as that of LaRouche himself.
Anyway – these guys do not represent republicans or anyone else. They don’t deserve any respect. There are lots of socialists besides Obama that have not taken the monsterous steps that Lenin, Stalin, Hiltler and others have taken. We do have the local anarchists that would fall right in step an put on the brown shirts, but, they have no leader. They would be more likely to follow Christie than Obama.
Your larouchie: Anyone who does not know that the policies that Obama has been pushing make Nero look like a towel boy and have already killed uncounted people because of budget cuts. He does not need an oven, he useds his Executive Orders and stupid people who do not know fascism even when it stares them right in the mirror. It seems that folks that people this site think flash mobs are the new “free speech” tool.
Everyone knows the the LaRouches are NSA/CIA operatives in training. Lots written about this decades ago. They are the evolution of the Nixon Cointelpro operation.
And further coverage.
Seriously, though, LaRouche people give the impression of being genuinely mentally ill. They’re so offensive and so completely disconnected from reality that it’s the only way to make sense of them.
Maybe you could Skyhook them?
The LaRouchies marched in the Renton River Days parade on Saturday, supporting Dave Christie. They taped a folded up American flag over “mpeach Obam”, presumably to avoid being booed or worse. It wasn’t big enough to cover the I and the a.
III. Next election coming up. Rachel Brown, Massachusetts 4th Congressional District Race.
Endorsements. Kennedy endorsed by the formidable Democratic Party machinery of the district. Herb Robinson nobody. Rachel Brown has one endorsement — and you know which pac that one is.
Can’t Robinson snag something somewhere just out of spite for the “Sons of famous political figures get the nod” rule of American politics?
A double whammy Campaign date. First up: NECN’s Broadside with Jim Braude will host a similar debate with the three Democratic candidates — Kennedy, Herb Robinson and Rachel Brown — on Thursday, August 16 at 6 p.m.
And then… Come and participate in an unusual political event, a Classical Concert Town Hall Meeting, which will feature special guest, LaRouche Democrat Nominee, Kesha Rogers (TX-22) and LaRouche Democrat, Rachel Brown (MA-4). Thursday August 16th 7:30 PM
From Brown’s point of view, the future job market opened recently with the landing of a craft on Mars. She said there are businesses throughout the district that could benefit from the expansion of the space program.
A common theme for Brown throughout the hourlong forum was the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall in order to strengthen the economy. In terms of bipartisanship, Brown said Glass-Steagall can bring members of both parties together. Brown also pointed to the proposed legislation as the “fundamental change” needed to repair the existing codes.
After moving on from Kennedy’s qualifications, Braude turned to Brown and brought up the well-known posters of President Barack Obama with “Hitlerian” mustaches and “impeach Obama” slogans. The posters are are often set up by supporters of Brown, who is part of the LaRouche PAC candidate slate.
“How can anyone take that kind of candidate seriously in a race for the United States Congress?” Braude asked.
“I’ve qualified the mustache, particularly with Obama’s health care plan, which includes the IPAB board, which is modeled off of the T4 program in Nazi Germany,” Brown said.
Brown also said she has been “vindicated in every aspect” of her campaign, including “national and international” discussion of the Glass-Steagall Act. The recent Mars Curiosity landing also backs up her calls to revitalize the space program, Brown said.
More. Brown’s campaign manager, Jennifer Kreingold, said that in retrospect, Brown’s 2010 flap with Frank was a boon for her.
“It was good in the sense that she was telling the truth,” Kreingold said, calling the Affordable Care Act a “fascist policy.”
But the team is realistic about its chances of winning the district.
“We’re not concentrating so much on counting votes,” Kreingold said.
Here she is. And the people, they speak.
Oh, sure, LaRouchies. The Queen of England runs the international drug trade! Trilateral Commission! BILDERBERGS!
Eek, a mouse!
LaRouchies are to the Democrats as the Ron Paul crackpots are to the GOP.
It’s funny how Quincy has been a nest for LaRouchies since the 70s. I’ll have to look into why that is. I remember seeing posters with Jimmy Carter’s face in a nuclear cloud on the old Gilchrist’s building back in ’78 or so when the LaRouchies were calling themselves the US Labor Party.
And whatever happened to H. Graham Lowry?
I saw someone refer to her as Alfred E. Newman. I used to run down to the corner store and pick up the latest MAD Magazine. Wow, makes you wonder if she has any brothers names Al, or if she used to be named that.
For once we agree GOP. I was driving by some Larouche nutjobs in front of the post office in Kingston and asked them if he was out of jail yet? These people take the first prize for looney politics.
Debate the stupid poster. Why?
But take it from wence it comes. Lyndon LaRoche’s behavior has always been questionable and somewhat twisted
It shows the ideologically-based bad judgment of Rachel Brown (candidate for the 4th Congressional District currently held by Barney Frank) who is a tool of the Lyndon Larouche political cult.
Margaret Fairchild chimes in with: No, you’re a good liberal-you express politically correct outrage at something which is not popular, but is absolutely accurate -used by people who are fighting to save the country-and civilization from a Dark Age-but you do nothing to solve the terrible problems of the world, which is all Lyndon LaRouche has done his entire adult life.
And onto WIcked Local...
So she admits to being a supporter of Lyndon Larouche (barf) The Space program would be perfect for her, just beam her up.
Forgive me for saying this but she gives me the creeps
Say “Hi” to Major Tom for me.
The Larouchies are crazier than cats on acid
IV. Three queries found in the stats page: lyndon larouche pac harassing me. Sorry to hear that. Shouldn’t have donated. And… LYNDON LAROUCH AND SEAN PENN. Sean Penn? why do the douche larouche give carrots … must be the carrot and stick approach to things.
I guess if the LaRouchies decide to run bus ads about Jewish bankers or some such thing, we will have Pam Geller to thank.
and Ron Paul are mirror images, just targeted at different ends of the political spectrum
Dateline Oxford, Connecticut. Yeah, there’s Chris Sare.
Dateline about same place and man:
The fact that the Patch would even post this wants to make me vomit. This is part of the problem with today’s media….oversaturation of nonsense. You gave the person who did this their 15 minutes of fame.
Activist Chris Sare, of New Jersey, co-organized Tuesday’s demonstration in Naugatuck.
Of the Obama sign, he said, “Some people are offended but when we actually explain to them what we’re saying — it goes back to the health care plan where he actually said that we’re going to cut waste out of Medicare. And he was explaining that there were too many people who get tests and treatment, especially as they get on in their later years. So that’s exactly what the Nazis did in 1939 to save money. They said, ‘Well this person’s life is not really worth the money; it’s a life not really worth living.’”
All right. Time for the Hitler Analogy break-down.
The Hitler analogy is actually rather accurate. Obama has furthered the Corporatist policies that both parties have been responsible for implementing. TARP Bailouts, Subsidies, Tax breaks for favored companies & tax hikes for others. All spit in the face of the Free-Market & fair competition, & equal opportunity. As far as fascist policies go, Obama continued Bush’s constitution-undermining Patriot Act, & signed his own tyrannical Act known as the NDAA which allows for “indefinate detention” of American citizens, without ever a trial or seeing a lawyer. In fact these pieces of unconstitutional legislation allow the Executive Office (President), to order the killing of any PERSON in the World SUSPECTED of being a terrorist! WAKE UP!!!!
Naugatuck Mayor Bob Mezzo, a Democrat, said he doesn’t care what kind of explanation is given: he believes that kind of disrespect for our president is despicable.
Okay. Supposing for a moment we have the “degrees of difference”. In that, I guess you can argue with civil liberties violations as “Hitler!” But now I’m stuck at these policies. TARP and subsidies and corporate friendly tax policies? We’ve been stuck at Hitler since the founding of this country.
Some passersby politely took literature they handed out while others were more demonstrative — making rude gestures as they drove by — but few who headed down Main Street on Monday missed the protest table set up outside the Ravena Post Office.
The table, staffed by two supporters, sported signs reading, “November is for losers! Obama Out Now” and “Impeach Obama, Restore Glass-Steagall”, among others.
Demonstrating that they are not supportive of either major party candidate running for president in 2012, another sign showed a donkey with President Barack Obama’s face on one end – wearing a Hitler-like mustache — and Governor Mitt Romney’s face on the other, and read, “Obamney – Which End Will You Vote For?”.
The LaRouche supporters said they are asking people to contact their representatives to ask for their support of the bill.
“We want people to call Congressman Tonko or Congressman Gibson on this initiative — the Glass-Steagall Act — and to impeach President Obama,” John Scialdone said.
They also urge Democrats to convince their party to put forward another candidate to oppose President Obama for the party’s nomination.
“We need a different Democratic nominee for president,” Murphy said. “President Obama is getting us into wars that will get us into a world war with Russia, and we have to revive basic investment in the economy.”
Dateline San Luis
Antony Holderman, 63, allegedly took a political poster from a display set up on the sidewalk in front of the Bank of America building at 2252 Main St. in East Village, according to Sheriff’s Office spokesman Tony Cipolla.
When a supporter of ultra-conservative political activist and author Lyndon LaRouche, who was one of those who had set up the display, tried to take back the sign, Holderman allegedly got into a brief fistfight with the man, Cipolla said.
The Sheriff’s Office has asked the San Luis Obispo County District Attorney’s Office to review the case. Charges could include strong-arm robbery.
Holderman complained of chest pains and was taken by ambulance to Sierra Vista Regional Medical Center.
The confrontation drew a lot of attention in a busy commercial area. Witnesses said it brought auto and pedestrian traffic to a standstill.
I don’t think that the author has this entirely right (er… left). I’m not sure that I would call LaRouche ultra-conservative. I’m afraid the left needs to own this nutjob. Sort of like a socialist Glenn Beck. The best part was watching presumably real conservatives give this guy money. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Dickason said deputies told her the young couple who set up the LaRouche booth were from the Los Angeles area.Another witness, Cassidy Riley, said the fight looked like “a schoolhouse fight that erupted into physical violence…people let personal politics get in the way of whatever message they were trying to convey.”Rick Bruce, who opposes LaRouche doctrine, said on Facebook later he went to the protest area to tell the couple that, even though he disagrees with what they were displaying and saying, he supports their right to say it. Free speech laws, he said, apply as much “to speech you hate as much as speech you cherish.”They recently were outside the Clinton, NJ Post Office and the Naugatuck, CT Post Office
The followers and fundraisers for Lyndon Larouche ought to get their heads out of their butts. Larouche lives off the funds he raises. His activities are unsavory at best and probably some of them are illegal. Yet the suckers keep running to him. How sad.
My sister who was an Obama voter in 2008 has changed her opinion of him after watching him try to dismantle our country. She is now working for the Romney Campaign.
Most moralistic people would agree that Lyndon La Rouche is a reprehensible person, to say the least. However, IMO it is the extremist within our society who keep donating to his website who are the worst of the two. It is those extremist, which allow La Rouche, through their contributions, to keep doing what he does for their demonically repulsive and perverse pleasure. For in reality, he could not exist without their support.
Scott is right about Larouche. I first met him about 40 years ago, when he was using the name Lynn Marcus, and was leading a pseudo socialist group. He has always been insane, frightening and demogogic. He is a racist, an anti semite and an unrepentant fascist. At one time, he led a violent group of thugs, and he has been arrested for fraud. He is also intellectually brilliant, and has charisma and a great deal of skill in writing propaganda. He is one of the most evil people alive in this country.Dateline Seahurst, Iowa
I don’t think these two LaRouche supporters knew the facts of World War II. They appeared too young to have been around during World War II. If they don’t know the history of the beginnings of World War II, then they don’t know that Hitler slaughtered not only the Jews but anyone to have been deemed different from the “normal” Aryan, including the mentally ill, disabled, artists, intelligensia, gays and others.
These two men prevented any person who needed a wheelchair, a walker, cane or a helping hand–Discrimination, just like Hitler.
Don’t block the way for others just so you can use your freedom of speech. And if you wish to call someone Hitler, please make sure you have your facts straight.
Still using them.
Par for the course. They’re LaRouchies, for Pete’s sake! Two thirds of their lives are spent in bunkers on the ham radio.
For at least the last 25 years the LaRouchers have stopped traffic to impeach whoever was pres and characterized him as Hitler. Their cause still hasn’t expressed a cohesive view that the public can absorb. All that rises to the top in their outlook is their vitriole and wacdoodle stand.
This is a cult masquerading as a political movement. These no-hopers you see on the street corner pushing their bs “literature”…their only function is to generate sales to pay for Lyndon’s private compound. I see the same guys working the tables I passed by as an undergrad, and that was 30 years ago. Need some de-programmers up in here.
ya I farted next to them…. it was a good one!
They stood in front of my post office recently. It’s a scam designed to separate you from your money. I suspect LaRouche and his minions pocket whatever they collect.
Anything with LaRouches name on it should be over in the ‘comedy’ section………….. the man
is a joke………..and not a terribly funny one
Lyndon LaRouche: The Rand Paul of the ’80s.
is LaRouche french for ‘the roach’?
The LaRouchies haunt our local post office with the same offensive poster. I tell them that if Obama were Hitler they wouldn’t be standing outside a US post office and that their as**s would have been turned into bars of soap by now.
Where have they been? Thirty years ago, California was crawling with LaRouche followers. Now, LaRouche crazies sightings are as common as Elvis sightings.
I thought he was dead
I never understood how Larouche, the parallel universe/ bizarro world version of Ron Paul… leaked over into ours… and has been able to exist here and even attract followers…
you would think that they cannot coexist in this reality frame… like matter and anti matter… different but kind of the same… as in fun house mirror reflection of each other… Or does physical reality need both to underpin the balance of overlapping extremes that keeps the universe from ending….
and further questions… do RonPaulists ever convert to Larouchism? or the other way around?… are there any who are quantum entangled? are simultaneously both and neither??!!
And how do ancient and resurgent crypto-Birchers and all the different dominionist cults fit in?… and the professional theologians of Oligarchism in all the usual suspect right wing foundations…
Trying to understand how these can all exist and persist in 2012 on planet Earth is baffling… trying to visualize them all in the same picture is like imagining a Bruegel or Heronymous bosch painting of some fantasmagorical landscape… garden of apocalyptic nightmares… updated with 21st century details mixed with the dark ages hell-scape… OK… sort of a zombie movie with 7th day Adventists and zombie undead ringing your doorbell with Ron Paul and Lyndon Larouche pamphlets at the same time…
More than one person told me they had already marked their absentee ballot for the other guy, before they found out he was a LaRouchie.
EVERY VOTE COUNTS. We could take McCotter’s seat but Dr. Taj must get through the primary. Vote Tuesday August 7.
I had no idea the LaRouchies even still existed
I used to see the crazies all the time in L.A., but that was….like….15 years ago? Have they been in their underground bunkers since then?
Saw the LaRouchies in L.A. 5 years ago
They made me laugh then, they make me laugh now. I fully expect them to tell me the world is full of lizard people or something.
Cape Cod If individuals like LaRouche, Williams and Broun cannot have their say, who can? We can only hope that they will be equally amenable when it comes to listening to the perspectives of others.
V. International Media appearances.
Jeff Steinberg on Iranian Press TV: Analysis “US Gives Perpeutual Green light to Israeli Violence.”
Executive Intelligence Review Shocking and controversial revelations from James Earl Ray’s attorney On April 4th, 1968, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. stepped out onto the balcony of the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, Tennessee
In a Wednesday interview with Press TV, Lawrence Freeman, with Executive Intelligence Review, pointed to the West’s campaign against Damascus and noted…
Harley Schlanger is the National Spokesman for the LaRouche Organization.
His grasp of history and his appreciation for the founding principles of the United States make this a profoundly compelling interview.
If you close your eyes, you’d swear this man was a Libertarian.
Dr. Deagell interview and crap and Pike.
‘The Rats Are Jumping Off This Sinking Ship. This System Cannot Survive Much Longer’ – Harley Schlanger – Silver Doctors.
The big Tuning Pitch debate. And on.
Albert Pike Crusade.
On the edge of WWIII. Again.
Squaring the Circle and Science. This is worth a deeper read than I can give it.
I don’t know how to take La Rouche, is he playing an angle.
Trekkies debate Robert Beltran. Bottom line is about “It’s his job and his business”, with some mix of “And Larouche is nuts — everyone of every political stripe can agree to that.”
“Hm.” to the starter point here. This is a running list of people, things, ideas, industries, and organizations that I hate
24 College students
College students who sit in Occupy tents all year and then don’t vote on election day
College students who think LaRouche is some kind of hero
College students who think Ron Paul is some kind of hero
College students who complain about how much their tuition went up and aren’t able to critically deduct that the fee increases are the direct causal result of massive state budget cuts and then blame the fee increases on everything from the lack of Occupy tents on the quad to the rapaciousness of public school administrators
College Republicans – schooling is meant to make you smarter, not dumber. But I guess you can’t really learn anything when you’re convinced that all peer-reviewed information is a communist conspiracy
Abel Danger says.
LaRouche and his followers are charlatans. They have nothing. Everything they say is name-dropping – “from the standpoint of blah blah blah” without ever showing the work – because there is none to show. LaRouche sells a dimension that he invents and that he says ordinary science ignores – based on abstract theories of Plato (with his dimension in which the ideal or perfect is more real than the physical world we know) and Gottfried Liebniz (with his fictitious monads – another reality-behind-reality metaphysical theory). He does the same with geometries based on different assumptions than those that obtain in our usual measurements and constructs – adding additional dimensions or changing assumptions (instead of the linear axes of Cartesian space and Euclidean assumptions, substituting convoluted mathematical equations) – but what does LaRouche do with that? Does he really use Riemannian geometry to discover Plato’s metaphysical universe – a reality that corresponds to our flatland as a cone, and where what we see as spirals are really a single “direction” on cone-surface space? No. LaRouche uses Riemannian geometry as poetic metaphor: he doesn’t go there; he doesn’t pull technologies from there. LaRouche is, as I said, merely dropping names: stealing the prestige of Riemann to support his charlatanism – his new Pythagorean mysticism now phony pseudo-science. LaRouche also takes principles of engineering and physics and “rediscovers them in the economics field” – only he adds nothing that wasn’t there already
VI. The big discussion with Adam Sturman.
Whatever happened to Sky and Summer Shields?
Hello Ciampion. Do you have any questions or comments? I can help.
How are you doing this afternoon?
Just fine, and you? I was just wondering what happened to Sky and Summer Shields?
Sky and Summer left a few months ago, on bad terms.
Sorry to say
They took some other leading members with them too.
Damn, that’s a shame. Sky especially seemed to know his stuff. I wonder what the conflict was.
There was no conflict, he was just a two-faced liar.
and some people chose to believe him, over the truth.
Man I can’t believe it he kept me coming back to the Weekly Report. What was he lying about?
The worst thing, was he was spreading lies about Lyndon’s role in Russia.
he would say one thing in public discussions, both internally and towards the public at large.
And, then he would, in private discussions, say the opposite.
We caught him several times doing this.
Ah, well. Must’ve been a blow to you guys to have to move all those resources out of California. Or are you still active there?
Oh hell yeah! We’re even stronger now that the liars are gone. Both in SF and LA!
Curing a sickness makes you better.
No doubt. Well thanks for chatting with me. I just saw the new option and thought I’d check it out. I watch you guys everyday if I can, keep up the good work.
Can you make just a $25 dollar donation?
it really helps…
even just $10
We get no funding from corporations or anythign like that!
We’re supported by people like yourself.
Sorry but it’ll have to wait i just paid my rent.
I know that feeling, unfortunatly.
This series of exchanges was going to end in quick course, and everyone involved knew it. Good to get word on Summer Shields, I suppose. I think he received the same percentage as Dave Christie, didn’t he?
And that one gets weirder still.