“Financial Crises Grow Exponentially”

However, a new article from the LaRouche Youth explains the real menace facing American life today: Dick Cheney’s plot to have us play computer games.

There is some method to this madness, and it probably does have some recruiting ability on a college campus.  A handful is all that is needed, and all that is desirable for this shammy whammy.  But, going to the item of interest from the “Larouche Youth Intelligence”, um…

For all those individuals salivating about the new Halo 3 video game, ask yourself the question: what is the difference between man and beast?

NOOOOOO!!!   Kill me.

II.  It appears that “someone” has edited history and deleted the raving remarks that I noted above.The Schiller Institute (sic) site now provides a transcript:
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/conf-iclc/2007/landbridge_conf_lyn_keynote_qna.html
but it OMITS LAR’s final remarks, including his World-Delusional Ejack-adulation:

“Q: You were just talking about, it’s so important to get Cheney out of office: And who can get Cheney out of office?
LAROUCHE: Me! Or, nobody can. Either one.”

But the above still appears at the original location:
http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2007/09/17/kiedrich-conference-keynote-panel-dialogue-larouche.html

Still, EITHER ONE “is” madness.

III. Because the world is demanding to read the cult’s internal daily briefings:

MORNING BRIEFING |
Tuesday, September 25, 2007|
—————————————————————+
LaRouche Says a Kick in the Testicles Is Needed
b~~~~Commenting on the Herbert Hoover-like delusion expressed by some Democrats and others that the present financial crisis is not a breakdown crisis, Lyndon LaRouche said today that we have to be tough. If people in the Democratic Party continue to hold onto this incompetent opinion, we may find ourselves losing the nation and civilization. This is a breakdown crisis. It was forecast by Lyndon LaRouche and that forecast is proven to be correct beyond any doubt. Unfortunately some Congressmen have been sucked into the view that the current crisis is not a breakdown crisis, under pressure from hedge funds, among others. To the extent that they continue to hold that incompetent view, the solutions which they offer are also incompetent. Moreover, they are delaying on erecting the necessary firewall as proposed by LaRouche to protect homeowners and state and federally chartered banks.
b~~~~LaRouche emphasized that there is no room for compromise. Anyone who says this is not a breakdown crisis should be told the he or she is incompetent, and that the price for that incompetence is beyond anything they’re willing to pay. Because of such incompetence we may lose the nation. Therefore any opinion that this is not a systemic breakdown crisis is not only incompetent, but a threat to the welfare of the nation.
b~~~~This is our line, period! A kick in the testicles is needed. 

Which leads us directly to this challenge of note:

I was unaware of this latest “forecast” when, a week ago, my friendly Leesberg contact – a well-known Boomer from the old FEF, called to tell me that by October 15th, the dollar would be worth ZERO.“Zero” ($0.0) I asked. “Surely you must be joking! Why do you keep telling me these things? You/LAR are always wrong. Yet, with each new crisis, you have the same high confidence. WTF are you trying to pull off? I’ve been hearing this nonsense for 30-40 years.”

The boomer tells me that “THIS time, it is all coming down. The CRASH is coming.”

I reply: “Surely you must have an out of some kind? Is it October 15th by 11:59PM, is that when it will end? Or will you fudge the date?”

“Yes, Oct. 15. The system is finished. Everything will vanish.”

“But perhaps YOU/LAR will intervene to save us – is that the excuse you will use when the crash does not materialize by 11:59PM on October 15th?”

So, of course, the boomer tells me about some proposal they are trying to get congress to pass (I knew nothing about it.).

I then ask, “Well, what is the cut-off date, after which the forecast will be written in stone?”

Boomer replies, “The end of September – if the bill is not enacted, the crash will come by the 15th.”

I ask, “What will the crash look like? Are you going to weasel out of that too, like you have all the other times? How can we MEASURE this crash.”

Boomer: “Money will be worthless – you will not be able to buy a loaf of bread for $100,000. The dollar will go to zero.”

I reply: “I am writing this down – I will hold you to this. So you say that $10 will not buy a loaf of bread, nor $100, nor $1,000, nor $10,000, not even $100,000.

Boomer: “Yes, exactly.”
On October 16th, I want to send my guy a loaf of bread, probably via UPS. Any advice on what type I should send?

So we have two things that are dominating the “political work” of the Larouche organization at this moment.  The BAE Scandal and Halo 3.  No.  Not the BAE Scandal.  Um.  A bill that is oh-so-being prodded into various state legislators that will solve the morgage crisis, and stave off the upcoming Dark Ages brought with the destruction of the economy…

… not to be confused with the Dark Ages that are being unleashed by Halo 3.

IV.  Now available online:  http://www.archive.org/details/SexualImpotenceOf

PuertoRicanSocialistParty

Take note of the provocative question “What is Male Impotence?”

This one requires you put your computer screen on your side.  Or something. http://www.archive.org/details/WhatEveryConservativeShould

KnowAboutCommunism

… Because, you know, the world is demanding to see 30 and 40 year old Larouche propaganda.

V.  One interesting thought on why Larouche insists on referencing Jeremiah Duggan as “Jeremy”, and I either posited it or nearly did so on this blog already, but was mentioned again at FACTNet.   It may be a deliberate psychopathic slap at Mrs. Duggan, who looked Larouche up on the Internet before her son went to the “Schiller Institute” meeting, but she misspelled his name.  Or… it may be a refusal of Larouche to use the name “Jeremiah”, for one of “those reasons”…

55 Responses to ““Financial Crises Grow Exponentially””

  1. Rachel Holmes Says:

    Speaking of LaRouche org international briefings the world must see, there’s a pretty funny analysis on FactNet of a recent briefing, written by Steinberg and channeling LaRouche.

    It’s at the start of a new FactNet thread, LaRouche Continued 3:

    http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/39982.html?1191069647

  2. Rachel Holmes Says:

    P.S.: On “financial crises grow exponentially”–everything in LaRoucheland grows exponentially. Everything is major, everything is onrushing–sometimes twice in one sentence.

    It is the world of the superlative–grammatically speaking only.

  3. Rachel Holmes Says:

    **COIRRECTION**:

    THe new FactNet thread, LaRouche Continued 3, is NOT at the URL I gave above, but at:

    http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/4/39986.html?1191079958

    Sorry about that

  4. revenire Says:

    I am wondering what the idea is: LaRouche had Duggan murdered because of what reason? He was a Jewish young man that was entrapped by LaRouche’s cult? In 30 years of following LaRouche I’ve seen LaRouche called everything in the political spectrum: from right to left to neo-Nazi to Communist to you name it and back. He’s been called anti-Semite for how long? 30 years? The motive for murdering Duggan doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. People come and go in LaRouche’s organization(s) and have for years. Clue me in.

  5. Justin Says:

    LaRouche had Duggan murdered because of what reason?

    I never said “Larouche had Duggan murdered”. But my more immediate question is “Why does he insist on calling him ‘Jermey’?”

    In 30 years of following LaRouche I’ve seen LaRouche called everything in the political spectrum: from right to left to neo-Nazi to Communist to you name it and back.

    In his 40 years Larouche has called himself conservative, liberal, and Communist, and you name it and back.

    He’s been called anti-Semite for how long? 30 years?

    More 35 years, actually. With a small inkling before then.

  6. revenire Says:

    What is the whole Justice for Jeremiah crusade about? To me, the calls for investigation look like an excuse to smear LaRouche by his political opponents. These people don’t give a damn that a young man is dead. Look at the links at the “Justice” website.

    I have two kids and can understand the emotion here but let’s look at it for a minute: isn’t LaRouche already under a microscope for everything he does? Finances? Politics? Etc. What is the allegation? Jeremiah wanted to escape from a cult and the cult had him murdered? Why couldn’t he have just walked away?

    I say Jeremiah’s mother is being used.

    Why does LaRouche called Jeremiah Jeremy? God knows. Why? Because he’s a Jew? You tell me what you think. The reason stated above doesn’t hold water.

    What if Jeremiah died in the manner the German’s said he did? Then what? Is that going to be justice? The mother won’t ever believe that. You have a son/daughter did and it is going to emotionally devastate you.

    If the Queen of England (pun intended) said Jeremiah died in the manner the German authorities said he did the mother wouldn’t buy it and people would use her, as they are now, to attempt to smear LaRouche as this small time Hitler. People like Dennis King etc. probably wet their pants when Jeremiah died. They are waving this young man’s dead body all over the web in a disgusting way aren’t they?

    What do you think the German investigation was? A cover-up?

    If LaRouche was called an anti-Semite for 100 years, by his political enemies, so what? I can call someone anything I want can’t I?

    LaRouche can proclaim himself Emperor of Mars and King of Bizarro World and so what? What is the point? LaRouche changed his ideas? I don’t get it. He was a communist and then a conservative and now a liberal? Draw me a picture.

  7. revenire Says:

    http://www.struat.com/election/2007/09/28/financial-crises-grow-exponentially/#comment-16507

    I did some Googling of my own and if LaRouche is this crazy whack job he sure had some big boys conned into listening to him. I don’t know if he still has these contacts but I doubt it is the sort of thing the NSC or the CIA or whomever would admit to. If memory serves, LaRouche has spoken at the Russian Academy of Sciences a couple of times and I am sure it wasn’t about what sort of toilet paper he uses. Either LaRouche was making it up — as in self-delusional — or these people all over the world (and in the US) took the man seriously. History can judge the importance but maybe everyone who met with him just wanted to meet the top cult leader on the planet? Right? Right.

    My own take is that LaRouche has a pretty good intelligence gathering network and has made a lot of enemies. The other stuff: cult, anti-Semite, etc. is just crazy if you ask me. The ex-members of his organization are bitter. They might have a legitimate reason to be bitter — I don’t know. LaRouche isn’t running a day care center for “drop outs” is he? People probably got sick of it, or were scared, or had a disagreement and left. How many of them are dead? If they died would LaRouche be the cause? The implication in the Duggan Affair is that somehow LaRouche’s “cult” is the responsible party and I just don’t see it. Like I said, I see Dennis King and others, attempting to make hay (sell books/whatever) over a young man’s death. That’s disgusting, to say the least.

    I used to watch his old TV broadcasts (back in the 80s) and he’d make some pretty wild charges against very prominent people but they never would sue him would they? If these VIPs wanted to shut LaRouche down why not sue? Maybe someone has sued LaRouche but it wasn’t someone like Kissinger or other prominent political figures.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If the CIA and NSC thought LaRouche had/has a great intelligence service and met with LaRouche’s associates why waste their time if he really is this nut case running a cult? Can’t the CIA/NSC tell? It’s pretty funny to see the stuff here. I admit I like this site. I like Tom Waits too but don’t tell Lyndon.

    The Duggan Affair is just an excuse to attack LaRouche because when you boil it down I have not seen anyone accuse LaRouche of murdering Duggan. It is implied though. The implication is this is a dangerous cult that one needs to steer clear of. I’ve been to LaRouche meetings and I am alive and I never joined their organizations full time, or part time, and was never pressured to. Maybe I don’t have enough money. 😉

    I liked their science magazine and their reports on the economy — the stuff on infrastructure was really good. They are right about that. I don’t care what kind of wine Helga likes etc.

    Anyone can take anything out of context. With the web anyone can be a star too.

    I’d really like anyone here tell me what the Duggan case is all about. I’ve read the Justice site and understand the grief of the mother but can’t really be her — no one can. Her son’s death is tragic. I have two children — 22 and 20 and if either of them died I’d be shattered.

    Justice for Jeremiah? I am all for it. I can’t wait to hear how LaRouche had the German police doctor the death report. Are the German authorities incompetent? The German investigators are under the sway of the LaRouchies? Wow, that’s power — especially for a crazy man of no importance. Or is it because they are “German” and might be thinking of the Third Reich or something?

    My main question for Google is can I get rid of a tiny bleach stain in a red t-shirt of mine. While reading “Children of Satan” I accidentally got a drop of bleach on this shirt and it is one of my favorite old t-shirts and when I go to rock concerts (shh, don’t tell Lyndon) I wear it. Everyone has a favorite t-shirt.

    Remember, LaRouche isn’t God or even close. He is old and will one day soon pass from his mortal coil (or whatever) and then it will be interesting to see what happens to his organization(s). Is he the Messiah? Ha, hardly… does he have some good ideas for the economy etc. Yeah, I think so. Do his ideas threaten certain financial powers? Yeah, if they were adopted they would certainly affect things like hedge funds, the drug trade and so on. The chances of LaRouche’s policies being adopted are slim to none though because he’s been branded a nut etc. Then again, the US went to war based on lies about WMD pushed by a man clearly lacking his marbles — Bush. I guess anything can happen.

    I will wait for October 15th with baited breath. I will also wait for the Duggan investigation and if the authorities come up with the same conclusions again then what? I can remember when LaRouche was accused of being behind the murder of Olaf Palme. It was an absurd charge and never went anyplace but you still hear it on websites etc.

    Of course, it will be interesting to see what happens to the nation of Iran if we attack them.

    LaRouche Planet is up and running and is filled with cool stuff. I wish they’d put the photo of Reagan and LaRouche talking up there. I bet they were talking about the weather!

    I remember when Reagan attacked Bush Sr. for being in the Trilateral Commission or something in New Hampshire. That was funny. That belongs on this blog. I also remember when Reagan attacked Dukakis over his mental health — Dukakis slipped 20 percentage points in the polls and if I remember LaRouche’s “minions” slipped the story of Dukakis mental state under the door of a the Democratic delegates.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFDA1F3BF937A3575BC0A96E948260

    The NYT doesn’t like LaRouche but who cares right? Politics isn’t a love fest of holding hands.

  8. Justin Says:

    I hope you are enjoying your stay in your cult. Remember: we have the free will to give away whatever part of that free will to whomever we want.

    LaRouche can proclaim himself Emperor of Mars and King of Bizarro World and so what? What is the point? LaRouche changed his ideas? I don’t get it. He was a communist and then a conservative and now a liberal? Draw me a picture.

    You seem to be flinging stuff up onto a wall hoping things stick there. That was an extremely narrow point that I was making there: you say that he has been called all of these things; I point out that he has called himself all of those things. Ergo, there is no point that you can make in insinuating that he’s been referenced all over the political spectrum.

    Case in point in more flinging stuff against a wall:

    If LaRouche was called an anti-Semite for 100 years, by his political enemies, so what? I can call someone anything I want can’t I?

    You brought it up. “30 years”, you say. I correct you — 35 years.

    Yes, yes indeed. you can call me “Emperor of Mars” and “King of Bizarro World”, and I would still not be either. Just like you can say Larouche is not anti-semitic, and that would be false as well.

    I wish they’d put the photo of Reagan and LaRouche talking up there. I bet they were talking about the weather!
    I remember when Reagan attacked Bush Sr. for being in the Trilateral Commission or something in New Hampshire. That was funny. That belongs on this blog. I also remember when Reagan attacked Dukakis over his mental health — Dukakis slipped 20 percentage points in the polls and if I remember LaRouche’s “minions” slipped the story of Dukakis mental state under the door of a the Democratic delegates.

    You haven’t read very deeply into this blog, have you? Actually you are sending mixed signals. You reference the vaunted Reagan – Larouche photograph and Dukakis and Bush and Trilateral Commission (and Skull and Bones) as “belonging on this blog” — suggesting I would never mention them — and then use the word “minions” — which I have used.

    Incidentally, that’s not the reason Dukakis slipped 20 points in the poll.

    My own take is that LaRouche has a pretty good intelligence gathering network and has made a lot of enemies.

    HAD, not has.

    Why does LaRouche called Jeremiah Jeremy? God knows. Why? Because he’s a Jew? You tell me what you think. The reason stated above doesn’t hold water.

    It appears that he is simply insulting the Duggans. The reason stated above holds some water, as does the suggestion that to type it into a search engine ensures that you end up to only Larouche publications. Which reminds me. Jeremy Duggan.
    By the way, as a rule I am a lot more conversant with regards to what happened with Ken Kronberg than I am with Jeremiah Duggan. Nonetheless, you want me to say what I believe happened with regards to Duggan? I’ll come up with that a little later.

  9. revenire Says:

    No, I am not flinging anything up on the wall to see what sticks. We’re just talking.

    How come I am in a cult? Because I said I agreed with some of LaRouche’s ideas? Okay, then I guess I am in a cult.

    I don’t care what LaRouche has called himself so maybe you can add that to my cult pedigree.

    I listen to “rock” music and read comic books and please don’t tell Lyndon or he will have me whipped but good.

    35 years is your word only on the anti-Semite charge and does it matter if it is 30-35 or 36 1/2 does it? That charge has been around forever and it sticks with those that want it to and doesn’t with those that don’t. People before you tossed that up on the wall. You believe it. I don’t care. It doesn’t matter. I’ve heard all the Jewish people that work full time for LaRouche hate themselves too. I’ve heard it all, trust me.

    I say Reagan’s comment on Dukakis sent Dukakis down down down in the polls and I also know how the delegates got the leaflet on the mental state of Michael Dukakis — LaRouche’s cult members slipped them under the door of every Democratic delegate at the convention and sent it to every press service around – big deal. Reagan makes a joke about it and the next thing is Dukakis is finished. The ironic thing about it is didn’t we get Bush Sr. as president then?

    Ever read about political campaigns of our country? I am talking about before “Big Bad Cult Leader” LaRouche was born.

    I haven’t read much on this blog at all so the word “minion” was my own creation. I don’t know what you are talking about there. I found this blog sitting surfing… the web. You know? It amused me. I said LaRouche’s minions not because I read you use it. I don’t know you and certainly never read a word you wrote until a few days back.

    Whether LaRouche had/has/or will have a good intelligence network is your opinion. Some people might say it sucks, others might say they like it, others may suck it up like popcorn during a movie. I don’t care what you think of it. The fact is the NSC and the CIA and foreign governments thought it was pretty darn good (probably still do but they aren’t about to advertise it to you or me) kind of makes this “LaRouche is a cult leader nut case without any good ideas” fall flat on the ground. According to the Washington Post (and if you look at the WaPo they don’t like LaRouche at all — they won’t be writing a nice obit on the guy) LaRouche’s “neo-Nazi thugs” were advising/meeting with people in the government — in many governments. Shocking! The WaPo looks like they, and other media outlets, broke the story that LaRouche’s nefarious “cult” was creeping into intelligence circles… the reason for that was probably to chill those “cult” connections.

    LaRouche is not saying the name right so he can insult the dead person? Right.

    Is it possible LaRouche didn’t even know this kid’s name? Or does the “cult” master know every single person who arrives at his meetings? That would be pretty wild if he did. He didn’t know when I was at a meeting or when my children were at a meeting did he? Does he get a list?

    Nah, the whole Duggan Affair is just an excuse to attack LaRouche. It’s a smear job and the sickos that have attached themselves to a grieving mother really are going really low. What happens when the German authorities stuff holds up? I will tell you what happens: Like all conspiracy theories those that believe in them will continue to insinuate that LaRouche’s “dark, murky cult” had Jeremiah murdered because he wanted to escape LaRouche’s “cult” when all anyone has to do to escape LaRouche is walk away from a meeting one of his boys/girls is having and you know it.

    http://larouchepac.com/files/pdfs/letter_from_fco.pdf

    That looks like the British Police and it is REDACTED! OMG!! They have not misspelled Jeremiah’s name!!!

    All I have to do is look at the links at the Justice site to know it is a political smear job and has zero to do with “justice” for this dead man. Again, the mother is being used and you lose a son and see how you’re feeling and how easy it would be for someone to tell you “the cult” “the cult” “the cult” until you adopt that.

    All anyone has to do to leave LaRouche’s meetings is get up and walk out. No one follows you. Okay?

    That’s the rub here: you make all the claims you want to but you and I know all you have to do is get up, walk out and you’re done with LaRouche. It is bye bye Helga and Lyndon. Plenty of people have done that and they are alive.

    Kronberg is what you’re hanging your hat on? Okay, let’s hear that story… LaRouche drove Kronberg to jump right? Wow. Do tell. How come? Because he was a Baby Boomer? Go on… tell me all about it. I can’t wait.

    LaRouche doesn’t control search engines does he? Good Heavens! This man how power I tell you!! Power!!

    Psst, you know who PJ Harvey is? I listen to her too. LaRouche doesn’t know so please keep it a secret. Shhh.

    Okay, now let’s moderate my post because we would not want any freedom around the world and then have at me. I can’t wait.

  10. Justin Says:

    Basically I believe that you believe Larouche has these great strains of legitimacy, it means you have one foot in the cult. Back to my statement “You have the free will to give whatever part of the free will to whomever you like” — Congratulations; you haven’t given it all to him — you apparently are off to a better foot into the real world than the “LYM”ers who walk onto college campuses every so often.

    That charge has been around forever and it sticks with those that want it to and doesn’t with those that don’t. People before you tossed that up on the wall.

    I can point the sublimated anti-semitism out, which hits me like a ton of bricks, and you will refuse to see it. I can then point the more overt anti-semitism of the “Liberty Lobby” era, and you will refuse to see it. That is why I am digressing to the more mundane matter of how many years it’s been when people point out that he’s throwing out a lot of anti-semitism.

    All anyone has to do to leave LaRouche’s meetings is get up and walk out.

    Jeremiah Duggan was out in the middle of nowhere. By design, I suppose. Remember

    I liked their science magazine

    My look at the final issues of 21st Century Science and Technology is here: http://www.struat.com/election/2007/07/24/21st-century-science-and-technology-and-what-it-tells-us/
    I read it and I see the hooks to ingratiate members into the cult. I don’t see why or how I could read it in any other terms.

    LaRouche doesn’t control search engines does he? Good Heavens! This man how power I tell you!! Power!!

    Scenario. Larouche recruiter rambles on about the “Jeremy Duggan hoax.” Person looks up “Jeremy Duggan.” It does not, or rather did not, take them to Justiceforjeremiah.
    Actually, thinking about it, I tend to slide into a psychopathic insulting of the mother (as you did by suggesting she’s being used) and, yes, a revulsion from using his proper Jewish name.

    Part of my understanding of Jeremiah Duggan comes from a part of the book Younger Than That Now. The past is prolouge, and there is nothing new under the sun. Wait a week for that one, I guess.

  11. revenire Says:

    “Basically I believe that you believe Larouche has these great strains of legitimacy, it means you have one foot in the cult. Back to my statement “You have the free will to give whatever part of the free will to whomever you like” — Congratulations; you haven’t given it all to him — you apparently are off to a better foot into the real world than the “LYM”ers who walk onto college campuses every so often.”

    Look, I am not here to argue with you over “cult status” but if you think having a wife, kids, a career and listening to rock music, going to movies, etc. qualifies me as being in a cult more power to you. The LYM that are full time zombies are full time zombies — or whatever you want to call them. I think they can handle the name-calling.

    I have a better foot in the real world? Well, let’s not go that far. 😉

    Look, I bet I’ve been reading the “Grand Poobah” of the “cult” for a long time. I used to subscribe to EIR, Fusion, the works and the anti-Semite crap is just that crap. Someone sold you a bridge. I had a friend, who was a full-time LaRouchie by the name Andy Klein (he has passed on now and didn’t jump from a bridge and wasn’t murdered) and he was Jewish and you know what? I resent you even suggesting LaRouche hates Jews. Okay? You heard of Anton Chaitkin? He’s the son of Jacob Chaitkin, the legal counsel and strategist for the Boycott against Nazi Germany carried on by the American Jewish Congress in the 1930s. You’re telling me Anton is a zombie too? Sorry it sounds like a remake of a movie. Too wild of a charge man. Are all the Jewish members of LaRouche’s “cult” self-hating Jews? I’ve been around a bit and the slander etc. doesn’t really stand the test of truth.

    “Jeremiah Duggan was out in the middle of nowhere. By design, I suppose.”

    The German cops did an investigation, so did the Brits. They said suicide. Until we get some new information that’s what the Germans are sticking to.

    I know some are clamoring for a new investigation but it is political and the people behind it don’t give a damn what happened to Duggan — except his mother. That’s obvious.

    “My look at the final issues of 21st Century Science and Technology is here:”

    I don’t care and I was talking about Fusion and then 21st Century. You looked at a science magazine on a blog but didn’t actually look at the magazine? Get real.

    LaRouche doesn’t run Google, or any other search engine. I just Googled it and LaRouche’s sites don’t come up first at all >

    http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=jeremiah+duggan&btnG=Google+Search

    You just can’t back it up can you? Duggan was murdered? Yeah, sure he was…

    The mother is being used. They are using her dead son to attack LaRouche and this will only work for so long, if at all. People who hate LaRouche will suck it up like manna and others will just dismiss it for what it is: nonsense.

    Tell me about Kronberg and how LaRouche made him jump. I am dying to hear that whopper.

  12. revenire Says:

    “Actually, thinking about it, I tend to slide into a psychopathic insulting of the mother (as you did by suggesting she’s being used) and, yes, a revulsion from using his proper Jewish name.”

    That’s ridiculous. A “revulsion”? How come Norbert Brainin didn’t have a revulsion for LaRouche? Was he brainwashed? Do you even know who Brainin was?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Brainin

    “Part of my understanding of Jeremiah Duggan comes from a part of the book Younger Than That Now. The past is prolouge, and there is nothing new under the sun. Wait a week for that one, I guess.”

    You don’t have any understanding of it at all — you have a conspiracy theory and that’s the ultimate irony here.

    Yes, the mother is being used. Is that the first time in history that has happened? Let’s skip LaRouche and go way way back and you know this has happened 1000s and 1000s of times. Someone loses their child and people with motives step in. Forget LaRouche okay? Duggan’s death has been investigated. No one murdered him. I don’t even see anyone suggesting he was murdered — at least no one in their right mind.

    Please, don’t use a blog as a reference because I can open a blog and say that Superman is stronger than the Hulk and it would just open a giant debate.

    If you have some proof, other than slander, I am all ears. You don’t.

    You have some proof on Kronberg I am open and ready to hear it but you don’t. You have conspiracy theories.

    The irony makes me laugh.

  13. Justin Says:

    You looked at a science magazine on a blog but didn’t actually look at the magazine? Get real.

    Let me go through this really slowly. I … looked… at… and… read through… the… final… several… issues… of… the… magazine. “Looked at a science magazines on a blog”? Jesus Christ, you are insufferable.

    You googled “Jeremy Duggan”. Not “Jeremy Duggan”, which was what I was referring to. That’s the point. Today if you google “Jeremy Duggan” you will get #1, larouchepub, #2, alex ross. Several months ago, alex ross’s page wouldn’t have been there. My little “google bomb” is half-assed, as now Jeremy Duggan gets us to a piece on this blog at #4, when I’d rather have it go to justiceforjeremiah. Ah well.

    Incidentally, something I’ve mulled a bit from this exchange:

    I used to watch his old TV broadcasts (back in the 80s) and he’d make some pretty wild charges against very prominent people but they never would sue him would they? If these VIPs wanted to shut LaRouche down why not sue? Maybe someone has sued LaRouche but it wasn’t someone like Kissinger or other prominent political figures.

    I often hear people referred to as arguring that 1 plus 1 equals 2. But more often I hear people arguring that 1 plus 1 equals 11. Why, oh why, did not Walter Mondale sue Lyndon Larouche for calling him a KGB agent instead of having his campaign worker say “I don’t think anyone takes Lyndon Larouche seriously.”?

    Also: In 30 years of following LaRouche I’ve seen LaRouche called everything in the political spectrum: from right to left to neo-Nazi to Communist to you name it and back. followed by me saying In his 40 years Larouche has called himself conservative, liberal, and Communist, and you name it and back. back to you with Draw me a picture.

    Takes more effort than it is worth to find the right program to draw a picture. Don’t ask me to do that. It’s fuzzy, but the only two dates worth noting that are precise: Larouche started calling himself a Marxist/Communist in 1947 when he joined the SWP. Larouche started being called a Fascist and Neo-nazi in 1972 with Operation Mop – Up. After that the dates of “conservative” and “liberal” (by way of aligning under FDR) are a little blurred, as are how people in the political sphere attack opponents by saying they sound like Larouche, the “right wing” or “Left wing”er.

  14. revenire Says:

    “Why, oh why, did not Walter Mondale sue Lyndon Larouche for calling him a KGB agent instead of having his campaign worker say ‘I don’t think anyone takes Lyndon Larouche seriously.’?”

    Ah, but people do take LaRouche seriously or you wouldn’t have all this stuff all over the world taking the guy seriously. The Russian Academy of Sciences, among countless others, don’t meet with and listen to the old geezer for kicks. They have better things to do.

    I don’t know you. You don’t know me.

    LaRouche has a magazine, the government shut down, called Fusion. It wasn’t made up of a bunch of chimpanzees but was a science magazine with the highest amount of subscriber for a magazine of its type. Later the government admitted it was a mistake to shut the magazine down. Too late — the intent of the political enemies of LaRouche had been accomplished.

    You need to do a bit more homework to make these arguments convince anyone but the already convinced.

    Both of us can cite historical figures that called themselves all sorts of things. Ben Franklin said he was a liberal. FDR was called a socialist. I can go on but to what end.

    I am of the opinion you have done little research on the subjects above and just state whatever pops into your head — little of which holds water.

    You explain to me how in the heck I can listen to Tom Waits to PJ Harvey to Nick Cave to Beethoven and back and be a member of a mind-controlling cult. How could I have even had my children? A career? You see, my friend, your name-calling can’t be backed up.

    LaRouche was right, and is right, on infrastructure and a host of other matters that people find uncomfortable. I can list plenty of stuff the man was correct about but he isn’t God and therefore isn’t right all the time is he?

    Like I said, Duggan’s death is being used to attack LaRouche. I’ve heard people say LaRouche ordered his death… come on. Do you have any idea how much money the government spent prosecuting the old geezer and his acolytes? LaRouche, like the Energizer Bunny, is still ticking but he’s old and will die — like everyone will.

    The fact that the people who meet with him worldwide — from presidents of nations to the common man — and listen to his advice (President Lopez Portillo nationalized the Mexican banks on LaRouche’s advice). There are many instances I could cite but I realize this won’t change your mind one bit.

    Then you come up with these crazy conspiracy theories about Duggan’s death, Kronberg’s death, etc. and expect anyone to believe it other than fools.

    Operation Mop Up? Enlighten me as to what you think happened because all you did, unless you were involved, was read some scribblings about it.

    You’re on the outside looking in and I understand it is difficult for you to make heads or tails of what’s what.

    It doesn’t matter.

    Like I said, at the beginning, this site is fun but a serious look at Lyndon and his actions it isn’t.

    I am all ears and open to changing my mind but so far all I see is tired old slanders.

    Take care…

  15. Earnest One Says:

    You are walking across a bridge. Midway, about 20 “friendly” people meet you, surround you. Well, surround you on only three sides. The other side is the railing, which you are intermittently pressed against.

    But they engage you in wonderful, interesting conversation. Politics, culture, math, physics. Creative mentation is even mentioned!

    At first it is interesting — even fun; but then you grow tired. You ask them to step aside, so that you can continue across the bridge. You have had enough. You are polite. You are always polite.

    Nobody moves, or some move and others take their place, or they all move but it is so haphazard and disorganized that you do not know whether or not YOU have been able to make progress across the bridge. Perhaps you have moved backwards. One thing remains constant: people are all around you, save for the railing – the only things “protecting” you from falling into the river below.

    At first it was all very friendly. But after a while, you’ve had enough. And you become “slightly” irritable. The surrounding crowd notices this irritation. And they become less friendly.

    A “negative” feedback loop develops and the wonderful “spirit” of this remarkable encounter deteriorates. Note, too, that time is passing. How much time? Who knows? But it is dark and you are tired, hungry, and weary.

    After a while, the mood becomes decidedly unpleasant, confrontational. They begin to attack you for your beliefs (political, spiritual, and religious). You defend yourself, you scream out for help. But they have surrounded you. And this goes on and on and on.

    You start to lose it. They notice this and respond by increasing the pressure. You want out. “Let me out of here!” you demand. “I have had enough”. Then someone yells out from the back of the crowd, “Jump – jump if you want out. Jumping is the ONLY way out”

    But you don’t want to jump. That would be suicidal. But then they threaten you, threaten your family. It becomes a nightmare. You ask for help, you appeal to their humanity, but nobody comes to your aide.

    You cannot see any passing cars. You are tired, frightened, scared. Days go by (or so it seems) and your mind becomes clouded, you cannot think straight. You are confused. You want to go home. You want some sleep. Nobody has come to rescue you, despite your pleas for help.

    You vision deteriorates, your hearing is affected. You become paranoid, or so it seems. Are the threats real, or are they simply joking with you?

    The crowd now chants in unison: “Jump! Jump! Jump! – It’s your only way out.”

    Indeed, in your confused state, you now think it makes some sense. “I’ll jump over the railing to escape – unless I jump, I will die. I can’t take it any more” You see no other way out. You are not thinking clearly, and you are scared of these people. They are threatening you and your family.

    So you jump. And you die. The fall is simply too much.

    Legal question:

    Did you commit suicide? Or did they “murder” you by surrounding you, threatening you and coaxing you to jump?

    I claim that it is murder, even though they did not push you, physically.

    At the start of your walk across the bridge, you were happy, had no intention of jumping or committing suicide.

    You died in a “state of terror”.

  16. Justin Says:

    Three topics deserve further explication away from this muddle, and thus their own post. Anti-Semitism. Ken Kronberg. Jeremiah Duggan.

    I have posted the anti-semitism post. I will do so the other two later on.

    Oh yes, I am indeed on the outside looking in. And it’s an interesting vantage point.

  17. Justin Says:

    By the way: Could somebody tell me where Herndon, Virginia is, as be the location of revinire’s ISP number? How close is it to Leesburg? That is a mighty suspicious location for someone claiming much distance from Larouche, Inc.

  18. Earnest One Says:

    True, in my fictional “story” one can find plenty of analogies with current events.

    I wanted, however, to pose a LEGAL question and point out a possible quandry.

    RE: Jeremiah Duggan. Perhaps the laws in Germany do not permit consideration of various “external” factors. If true, this appear to be a loophole in their system of justice.

  19. Rachel Holmes Says:

    Herndon is one town east of Sterling, which was the town where PMR was located, and is the town where Ken Kronberg jumped from the overpass. And Sterling is a few miles east of Leesburg.

    IP addresses are notoriously hard to pin down (take that, Barbara Boyd and Bruce Director!), so if the IP address “pings” as Herndon, it’s probably Leesburg.

    My take on “revenire” is that he(she) is a current LaRouche member, with a whole lotta time on his/her hands/paws.

    Seems obsessed with Duggan, just like the “legal” staff (Bruce Director’s new fulltime job–messing around with the Duggan case).

  20. revenire Says:

    Sorry.

    Pretty paranoid aren’t you? Ping again. You want to track me down? Why? Should I go to a public computer? Should I be afraid?

    To be honest, you folks sound like the people on the bridge harassing someone.

    I am not a full time LaRouchie, far from it. I have not been to a LaRouche meeting in probably 10 years. Okay? I don’t care if you believe me. You’re funny and also pretty weird — you actually are trying to find out who I am? That sounds threatening to me.

    It sounds like a threat and also sounds like you don’t like anyone to burst your little bubble either.

    The jumping story isn’t even third-rate SciFi Channel fare…

    People surrounded Duggan and caused him to jump in front of automobiles? Or are we talking about Kronberg or both? It looks like grasping at straws to me. People don’t surround someone on a bridge — it sounds like that movie where the children are from outer space and take over the town — and cause them to jump by harassing them. In the movie the kids had mind powers, like Professor X in the comic books. Do the LaRouchies have mind powers? Telepathy? Maybe they can bend spoons…

    What did the German police report state? What did the British authorities say about it? If any of you actually cared about Duggan you’d read get a copy of the German police report and post it on the web. None of you have. You’ve used the death of Duggan to attack LaRouche.

    I’d like to see the German police report. All of it. That would be a start toward justice. Post it someone and then post the British authorities response to it.

    Someone surely has read it and rejected it. The storyteller above wants to know German law — I am certain he/she can find out German law on the world wide web.

    I’ve never lost a child but have lost a father and the doctors botched it and maybe LaRouche really controlled the doctors so I would sign my life away to become a full time Labor Committee member huh? I blame LaRouche for my father’s death. That’s it. My dad used to go to meetings but he didn’t agree with everything LaRouche said… so they had the docs botch the job! My God! I am so glad I found this site.

    Or maybe… I dated a Jewish woman once and maybe LaRouche found out and that is why my father is dead!

    Justice for Rev’s Dad!

    Obsessed with Duggan? No. I just want to hear from you folks — the ones obsessed — what you actually think happened. I’ve heard one story about his being surrounded by people and psychologically tortured until he cracked and then jumped in front of automobiles (Duggan) or (Kronberg) off a bridge.

    People that don’t like LaRouche can just walk away. They do it everyday don’t they? The very fact you are here posting proves it. They don’t jump off bridges or in front of cars. They just get up, say “this is garbage”, and move on. Anyone remotely familiar with a LaRouche “meeting” knows that and certainly anyone who was a full time member who “escaped” knows it too and is lying when they say otherwise. People that quit LaRouche’s “cult” do so for a variety of reasons but sometimes they just are cowards aren’t they? Then they get bitter — very bitter — for wasting decades of their life and end up on the web posting about suicides caused by the Wizard of Oz and then they ramble on about “justice”. You know? Sometimes they’re just cowards.

    I don’t work for LaRouche okay? You’re pretty damn paranoid for thinking I do. I am not in Virginia either (too humid). I’ve talked to Bruce Director on the telephone but that was about 17 years ago… maybe he planted something in my tooth that sends me radio wave messages?

    I found this site surfing the web. Honest.

    You know what? You are the ones that sound like the pack described in the story above. You hound me by attempting to ping me? Ha. If I was a LaRouche zombie would I be so stupid (maybe because I sold my brain to meet quota) to leave an obvious trail? Doesn’t the “cult” have offices all over the world? I could be in Singapore posting this.

    You just don’t have any comeback for anything I write so you grasp at air and come up empty. These are just words. Are they that potent? It takes 3-4 of you to even answer one person? And, you can’t even answer me?

    One guy, “earnest” (good name), wants to find “loopholes” in German law.

    Someone else guesses I am near Leesburg, near where Kronberg jumped. Yeah I am on the very bridge — it is a WiFi hotspot! I travel in my car from town to town picking up new IPs to throw you off my trail!

    You guys sound like you’ve lost your minds. Who is obsessing again?

  21. Justin Says:

    Of interest:
    http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/08/apocalypse-pretty-soon/

    Someone else guesses I am near Leesburg, near where Kronberg jumped. Yeah I am on the very bridge — it is a WiFi hotspot! I travel in my car from town to town picking up new IPs to throw you off my trail!

    No. I am not guessing that you are near Leesburg. I have verified that you are near Leesburg, and likely in Leesburg. I suspect you are employed by Larouche, and have from the beginning — though had’nt done the quick isp check to confirm at least part of that suspicions because I’d just let your discussions run their course, and go ahead and treat them as coming from an uninterested party. I am actually not interested enough in taking the more arduous steps in checking anything more — too much work for too little benefit. Carry on.

    Now granted, I have never been referenced directed in a Daily Memo, unlike “Larouche Watch” which they have warned the LYM about by name — apparently s/b runs from the (unnamed) sewage system of Wall Street Financier John Train, spill-over from Dennis King. You want me to pretend that I’m not being read by the headquarters in Leesburg, and that I am spinning a wild conspiracy theory and I’m making a huge jump there? Larouche does not have a huge following beyond his cadre, and that which he does — outside the orbit of the cult — is not going to be as up on the details of Duggan or Kronberg (even in terms of how Larouche is passing it on) as you (revinire) — casual followerer you claim to be — display.

    Anyway, I find it amazing that you run from there to Ken Kronberg’s suicide, and I don’t really even know what I am supposed to do with it.

  22. Earnest One Says:

    Hey, Revenire:

    There obviously IS a loophole in German law. There was absolutely zero consideration of prior events. It is like my story, above, except nobody sees the crowd — they only see the guy jump.

    You write:

    “Obsessed with Duggan? No. I just want to hear from you folks — the ones obsessed — what you actually think happened.”

    I am hardly obsessed, but I have had personal, first-hand experience with LaRouche goons, in Wiesbaden and in Leesberg. Here, “Earnest One” is quite appropriate.

    I think they terrorized Duggan, using methods honed from decades of practice. Sleep deprivation is a well-known tactic — for all cults, not simply LaRouche. It is boilerplate, cookie-cutter stuff.

    The running away seems entirely rational. What sane person wouldn’t run away from those creeps? But perhaps his sanity/judgement was compromised. Perhaps they threatened him, or his family.

    I say that there are problems, even assuming that the official story is true.
    An investigation is needed, truly, to determine what happened before all the final events. Again, this is assuming that the official story is correct.

    Duggan’s death was NOT an isolated incident. This is simply a fact.

  23. revenire Says:

    A link to the British police report is easy to find and they (the British authorities) found the same conclusions, hence the call for a new investigation. Like I said the Queen of England (taking time out from selling crack cocaine out of her carriage — pun intended) could state Duggan’s death was as the Germans concluded and you people — without one shred of evidence — would blame the “cult” and continue your crazy conspiracy theories.

    The UK has a FOIA type request and people can get the report. I don’t know about Germany (guess I should because I am often there in Helga’s castle sucking down wine like it is going out of style and attempting to build the perfect “Golden Soul” out of spare body parts, like Dr. Frankenstein.)

    Read it (the police report). Those convinced the LaRouche’s “cult” had Duggan murdered won’t change their minds. Too bad any new investigation will come up empty huh? Then the political enemies of LaRouche will come up with another “body” to attack LaRouche with. They aren’t really attacking LaRouche as much as they are attacking the ideas he’s putting forward.

    LaRouche would have made a good president but then again with this idiot Bush as the prez Donald Duck would have made a good president. I don’t hear anyone saying LaRouche is the Messiah and don’t see a mass suicide ala Jonestown. I do hear them (LaRouchies) saying unless certain measures are taken on the economy, foreign policy, etc. this or that could happen. Big deal — certainly any LaRouche “forecast” has beaten any Bush forecast on the war, the economy, and anything else you can name. You disagree? Hell, any LaRouche forecast has beaten plenty of Fed pronouncements and Greenspan recently admitted he didn’t understand what he was doing — is that too out of context for you folks?

    You with an ax to grind with old man Lyndon, grind away. It won’t affect anything going on except provide a laugh for those watching.

    ——————-

    The Jeremiah Duggan Case — The Facts
    Sept. 25, 2007 (EIRNS) — The Lyndon LaRouche Political Action Committee issued the following release today.

    Jeremiah Duggan, a 22-year-old British student, died after being struck by traffic on a road outside Wiesbaden, Germany on March 27, 2003.
    At the time Duggan was studying at the University of Paris, and had travelled to Germany to attend a conference sponsored by the Schiller Institute. Several hundred other people also attended the conference, which centered on the Eurasian Landbridge: a solution to the global strategic crisis.

    German police concluded that Duggan committed suicide by running across a two-lane highway, the Berliner Strasse, and colliding with two private cars in the early hours of March 27th. According to witnesses interviewed by German police, Duggan physically “leapt” into the path of the cars, suffering fatal injuries to the head when he was struck.

    German police found no evidence of any third-party involvement in the incident.

    Those findings have since been upheld by both the General State Attorney in Frankfurt and the Oberlandesgericht Frankfurt, the highest criminal court in the state of Hesse.

    On July 14, 2003, a member of Britain’s Metropolitan Police Service concluded that Jeremiah’s death had been “fully investigated” in Germany. According to a note recently released under the U.K.’s Freedom of Information Act, the Met Police had been assured that all relevant witnesses to the incident had been interviewed, and that any possible third parties had been ruled out.

    Four months later, British coroner Dr. William Dolman concluded at an official inquest that Jeremiah died as a result of being struck by two vehicles, stating that there were “no issues” that needed to be taken up with the German authorities that first investigated the incident.

    Again, no evidence of third-party involvement was adduced at that inquest.

    The Schiller Institute has always maintained that it had no involvement whatsoever in Jeremiah’s death, and has expressed its sympathy to the Duggan family.

  24. revenire Says:

    Hi Earnest,

    Okay… I am not looking to pick a fight, or start a flame war. With me, what you see is what you get. I have no motives and am not on any legal team for the Labor Committee. I am just a guy with a family and the rest. I am not restricted to Beethoven or reading Schiller and like I said enjoy all manner of music and reading material.

    YOU say there is a loophole in German law. Maybe there is but there are plenty of guys on death row in the States and DNA tests could prove them innocent — they’re still alive! Why not spend some time working on that than this useless effort. Am I supposed to take your word on the face of it? I don’t expect you to take mine.

    “I am hardly obsessed, but I have had personal, first-hand experience with LaRouche goons, in Wiesbaden and in Leesberg. Here, “Earnest One” is quite appropriate.”

    I am not the spelling Nazi, as opposed to the soup Nazi, (pun intended) but it is Leesburg. I too have first-hand experience with Wiesbaden and Leesburg. Big deal. This is like saying “my daddy is bigger than your daddy”…

    I am a fair guy and want to know the truth. I have opinions just like you and my opinion is Duggan’s mother is being used for political reasons. The links at the “Justice” sight kind of prove that to me.

    “I think they terrorized Duggan, using methods honed from decades of practice. Sleep deprivation is a well-known tactic — for all cults, not simply LaRouche. It is boilerplate, cookie-cutter stuff.”

    How long was Duggan at a meeting? He didn’t sleep for how long? That’s your argument? He just was terrorized into jumping in front of autos? I don’t buy it because I know plenty of people who simple up and left a LaRouche meeting — this is from coast to coast and this is young and old and rich and poor. These people are still alive. My mother left more than one and she’s Jewish and still alive. She’s in poor health but thinks LaRouche was right but who the heck is she? Right? You can call me a liar but I am telling the truth here. I know full time members that left and are still breathing. It wasn’t hard for them to leave. It was easy. On the other hand I see a couple of bitter members that gave decades to a cause and then decided LaRouche was a sham and got very bitter. Are you one of those? I can understand someone spending 20-30 years full time with LaRouche and then chocking it in and becoming this bitter, obsessed web-addict.

    “The running away seems entirely rational. What sane person wouldn’t run away from those creeps? But perhaps his sanity/judgement was compromised. Perhaps they threatened him, or his family.”

    No more spelling corrections Earnest. He was running away from what? You see, you don’t have any facts but you have lots of conspiracy theories here. “Perhaps they threatened him”? Oh Geez-us… even you should know better: LaRouche, already painted as a small time Hitler, is going to threaten a Jewish young man? Then have him killed? Yeah, right. Stupid theory Earnest… doesn’t even make sense. Duggan was under no pressure to remain anyplace.

    You ever been to a meeting in Wiesbaden? People come and go as they please. Members come and go as they please. New ones join, old ones leave — kind of like a job. If there were all these ex-members who were threatened where are the charges? This is where it all falls apart. You have bitter ex-members that are whining about their lives and how they wasted time with LaRouche. Oh well, maybe they should move on and see if they can do something with their lives rather than whine about their choices. Or is it they didn’t have a choice? I have been reading LaRouche’s stuff for about 30 years and have seen the old Campaigners and own a lot of them. I know a bit more about it than most of the folks posting here.

    “Duggan’s death was NOT an isolated incident. This is simply a fact.”

    No? Who else? Kronberg? Connect the dots for me please. If you”re going to suggest Kronberg jumped because LaRouche said he was some sort of useless Baby Boomer save it. I am a Boomer and I haven’t jumped. Ha.

    Politics is dirty business, as the last presidential campaign showed with the attacks on Kerry etc. To use a dead young man to attack LaRouche is really sick. To suggest LaRouche drove Kronberg to jump is just as bad. I might be naive but LaRouche’s political enemies are really desperate.

    I am open to discussion but let’s keep it out of the Twilight Zone and personal attacks.

    Did you know Andy Klein? He was Jewish and I really, really am offended anyone suggest any Jewish person working with LaRouche is a self-hating Jew. That is a sick thing to say.

    Take care,
    Rev

  25. Earnest One Says:

    Rev,

    You write:

    “Duggan was under no pressure to remain anyplace.”

    Is this simply your “speculation”, or were you with him? How would you know, one way or another?

    Note, too, that if he “was under no pressure to remain anyplace”, then why did they take his passport?

  26. revenire Says:

    “Note, too, that if he ‘was under no pressure to remain anyplace’, then why did they take his passport?”

    Is that in the police report?

  27. revenire Says:

    “No. I am not guessing that you are near Leesburg. I have verified that you are near Leesburg, and likely in Leesburg. I suspect you are employed by Larouche, and have from the beginning — though had’nt done the quick isp check to confirm at least part of that suspicions because I’d just let your discussions run their course, and go ahead and treat them as coming from an uninterested party. I am actually not interested enough in taking the more arduous steps in checking anything more — too much work for too little benefit. Carry on.”

    You have “verified” I am near Leesburg? Ha, ha, ha — I am in another state and it is in the Midwest and I am back here from 25 years in Los Angeles. I am at least 1500 miles from Leesburg and believe me if I was in Leesburg I would tell you so. What is the difference if I am in Leesburg or on Mars? Or did I order Duggan to jump? Call the cops.

    You are one paranoid person and must be dashing these things off really fast. I’d tell you where I am but you come across like a stalker and have already attempted to locate me. What’s next?

    “You want me to pretend that I’m not being read by the headquarters in Leesburg, and that I am spinning a wild conspiracy theory and I’m making a huge jump there?”

    I’m going out on a limb here and going to guess they don’t even know who you are over at “cult headquarters” pal. You’re actually telling me they are reading this blog and care about what is said here? News to me. Got any proof of that, other than your mind-reading abilities?

    Your skills at tracing IPs suck, to put it mildly, and you are a piece of work.

    You’re peddling conspiracy theories about Duggan and Kronberg and preaching to a very small choir and you know it.

    What is this place? Outside of the laughs I get what else have we got going here?

  28. Earnest One Says:

    Same old story.

    Discourse devolves into insults and adolescent-level jokes.

    Let’s get serious. Please post that Police Report.

    Till then, I’d rather believe my lying eyes than LaRouche et al.

    For example: In the late 1970s, I attended one of the the yearly conferences in Wiesbaden. Tremendous pressure was applied on me to fork over my US passport.

    But please, let’s see what that Police Report says.

  29. Justin Says:

    From their daily memo from early last August, issued, yes, from Leesburg:

    The latest excretions from such sewers as Dennis King, the American Family Foundation’s FactNet website, a new website run by Star Trek groupie and Robert Beltran stalker Christine Wellman, and other droppings from John Train’s salon. […]

    continue the obsessive campaign of LaRouche haters to exploit the tragic death of Ken Kronberg, a man they never knew, and whose life was dedicated to fighting the stupidity they represent.

    If they’re reading “Larouche Watch” they’re reading these “droppings from John Train’s salon”, earlier mentioned as one of those sewage blogs at a time when there really weren’t any other blogs.

    Fool.

    Your skills at tracing IPs suck

    My “skills” at tracing IPs is, quite frankly, reserved to pluggin the isp number into arin.net. A town near Leesburg pops up. Of all the places that could possibly pop up. I think it falls under the “preponderance of evidence”. It is not at the “Shadow of the Doubt” level, I suppose, but it meets “preponderance of evidence”.

    What is the difference if I am in Leesburg or on Mars?

    Nothing, at first… which is why I didn’t bring it up at first.

    Actually something else pops out at me, beyond your initial defensive posture where you let fly more information than is natural to provide. (RC Harvey fan, you say?) — the hallmark of someone needing to lay out a story.

    I liked their science magazine and their reports on the economy — the stuff on infrastructure was really good. They are right about that. I don’t care what kind of wine Helga likes etc.

    I don’t care what kind of wine Helga likes either, and generally make it a point not to relay such stuff. (The etc., I assume is the “Legendary beer farts” that I ignore in looking at the FACTNet posts.)

    I found this site surfing the web. Honest.

    If you did so, you did so after reading the FACTNet posts, extensively enough to bring up that rather minor facet of things.

  30. revenire Says:

    “Same old story.”

    “Discourse devolves into insults and adolescent-level jokes.”

    No, it is just the web and you certainly have an ax to grind with old Lyndon. I don’t care. I am here and your threats of ‘we have his location on Google Earth’ don’t scare me. I see it as pathetic.

    “Let’s get serious. Please post that Police Report.”

    You’re so concerned with ‘justice’ why don’t you get the damn thing? I read redacted snips of it on LaRouche’s LPAC site and if there was more to the case we’d have the new investigation. This reminds me of the investigation into WMD — none were found. What, in your wildest dreams, and they are wild, do you think is going to be found.

    Earnest are you some bitter ex-member of the Labor Committees who is just out to gripe every single day of your remaining years? I mean do you have a life other than dreaming up nonsense about people being forced to jump off a bridge or jump in front of cars? Is that insulting to you? It is only a question. Can you handle it?

    “Till then, I’d rather believe my lying eyes than LaRouche et al.”

    I think I’ve said I don’t care who you believe in. Benny Hinn is far more entertaining than LaRouche and so is Gene Scott. Scientologists are bizarre and I had one tell me they could put my brain into a robot’s body once. I have to laugh when I think of it but you and your conspiracy theories aren’t that far off. Talk about LaRouche — you spin some wild garbage. I -am- being serious and if the shoe fits… you know the rest.

    “For example: In the late 1970s, I attended one of the the yearly conferences in Wiesbaden. Tremendous pressure was applied on me to fork over my US passport.”

    Cut it out — you were going to hand over your passport? Why? Did Helga surround you with her German dogs and pour wine all over you or something? Seriously, what kind of pressure? Did they tell you that your mother was the cause of your impotence? I would really like to know what would cause a young man in the 1970s to hand over a passport. I think you’re full of it — just straight up lying and you are also using dead men (Duggan and Kronberg) to attack LaRouche. You won’t get far with that… trust me. King and the rest may make a few bucks off the thing, selling his book — the one that attempted to decode LaRouche-speak by saying every single time LaRouche says ‘British’ he is actually saying ‘Jewish’… lol, I am sure there are a lot of idiots who would swallow that.

    “But please, let’s see what that Police Report says.”

    I said > go dig it up if you’re so passionate about ‘justice for Jeremiah’ because I say you don’t give a damn about justice for this dead man. You want to slander LaRouche and are using a dead man to do it: two dead men.

    Did Molly say LaRouche caused Ken to jump?

  31. Earnest One Says:

    Okay web-based A..hole.

    Here is “some” pressure:

    A large LaRouche goon smashes into me on the street while I was walking with members of a major “delegation” the night before one of the yearly Wiesbaden conferences, circa late 1970s.

    The big-time LaRouche goon issues a threat:

    “Either you join up, or we cut your blank blank’s legs off”.

    Here “blank blank” is a close family member, not present. Then, the real target of this “operation” (another close family member, already half-way indoctrinated) turns to me and says, “They have a way of pulling you in.”

    I was immediately carted off to a room where a team of seven LaRouche goons kept me sleep deprived for six straight days as they conducted one of their infamous ego-stripping sessions. Sadly, for them, I am one tough cookie.

    The “police” have my statement.

    Now, do you have an earnest response? Or will you wilt in the face of a first-hand, truthful report? Or worse, will you lie through your teeth?

    Run like the wind, kids. These LaRouchie guys/gals are seriously wacked, and it has nothing to do with the extreme political conditions now extant in the USA/World.

  32. revenire Says:

    Wrong wrong wrong.

    I live in the Midwest so you’re the fool and just in time for Halloween too! I don’t live in Virginia and never have. I lived on the West Coast the last 25 years of my life. Los Angeles if you want to know…

    Does it matter. You’ve called me a liar. Okay Justin?

    You have no idea how the web works do you? Look up “hops”, “ttl” (time to live), the OSI model, and then come back and talk to me about your feeble attempts. You can go to Wikipedia and they have a good enough explanation of it all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_live

    That should give you a start. It is easy enough to learn.

    You actually became obsessed with me enough to attempt to locate me? Talk about a whack job.

    I am a fan of comic books: specifically the Silver Age stuff of people like Jack Kirby. I never was a fan of underground comics but read the comics we would pick up at drug store spinner racks. I also like plenty of other illustrators and cartoonists — Milton Caniff, Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Krenkel and tons of others. Great stuff.

    I haven’t provided any unnatural information and didn’t come here to lay out of a story. I am being straight with you. I just post whatever pops into my Secret LaRouche Radio Tooth Implant (except I am listening to ‘White Chalk’ which is PJ Harvey’s new CD so if anything I am a renegade LaRouchie). I also love Battlestar Galactica — the new series. Is that too much information for you? Take deep breaths.

    FACTnet? No, I don’t read FACTnet. Should I? I have heard of it but assume it is made up of a bunch of ex-LaRouchies that are bitter about their wasted time with LaRouche and they probably are now wasting a lot of time whining about their ex-boss. Am I right? I will have a look.

    This whole thing, at least my involvement, started with this:

    “I am wondering what the idea is: LaRouche had Duggan murdered because of what reason? He was a Jewish young man that was entrapped by LaRouche’s cult? In 30 years of following LaRouche I’ve seen LaRouche called everything in the political spectrum: from right to left to neo-Nazi to Communist to you name it and back. He’s been called anti-Semite for how long? 30 years? The motive for murdering Duggan doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. People come and go in LaRouche’s organization(s) and have for years. Clue me in.” – revenire, October 5, 2007

    You folks got rabid at the simple questions posed above.

    How’s the new investigation coming? We any closer to justice? How many Iraqi children die daily and are you kooks going all out to save them? It looks like we have a few LaRouche-obsessed whack jobs that are thinking they have this huge thing: Duggan and that will crack the LaRouche Bizarro World wide open.

    Good luck.

  33. Justin Says:

    For what it’s worth, the last computer I used serves me over to Colorado. But I’m still left wondering: why the heck would you bring up Hegla’s wine-drinking?

    And my first response here was a terse matter of fact response to two parts of your comment. “He’s been called anti-semitic for 35 years.” “He himself has called himself conservative, liberal, and Communist” — explicated somewhat a bit later. You sort of picked the wrong horse with me with Jeremiah Duggan, but I’ll get to it anyways.

    What do you think of Krigstein?

  34. revenire Says:

    Earnest,

    The 1970s ordeal you went through doesn’t ring true to me. All I have is your word and that’s it.

    You don’t know me.

    “I was immediately carted off to a room where a team of seven LaRouche goons kept me sleep deprived for six straight days as they conducted one of their infamous ego-stripping sessions. Sadly, for them, I am one tough cookie.”

    I am glad you’re tough. If I accept what you say at face value I am glad you didn’t succumb.

    How, if I may ask, did they keep you sleep deprived for six days? What did they do? Tie you down?

    If the police took a report on the above, and it had any merit, what happened? Those are very serious charges. Did the cops just shrug their shoulders? Did they bring charges against anyone?

    “Now, do you have an earnest response? Or will you wilt in the face of a first-hand, truthful report? Or worse, will you lie through your teeth?”

    You have my response. You need to prove your accusations and that has to be done by other than “I am telling the truth” you know? I don’t just take the word of someone on a blog nor would you.

    If what you state happened you most certainly has a legal case against whomever did this. Was there any merit to it?

    The thing is worldwide leaders do listen to LaRouche and I cited examples of that and even the political enemies of LaRouche admit he — or his organization — have intelligence connections and the intelligence LaRouche’s people have given have been acted on — Portillo acted on them as did others.

    Honestly, you come off as a bitter and hateful person. That’s my impression. You call me a “web-based a-hole” but I am a not web-based. I am sitting here in the real world, not the world of blogs and charges and counter-charges.

    I’ve seen people leave various LaRouche organizations and you know, as well as I do, that most people that don’t agree with old man Lyndon just leave the meeting and nothing happens at all.

    I have first hand experience too. No one ever pressured me to join their organizations, they didn’t pressure family members, they didn’t prevent me from anything. I have friends that support/supported LaRouche and nothing ever happened to them. Explain that.

    I would like honest discourse but let’s see some. The stuff above is name-calling and slander. It’s slander and it is politically motivated. You didn’t care for my response so you “went off” on me. I am tough too.

    I’ve been around LaRouche since 1979, roughly, and saw nothing like you describe once. I also saw no anti-Semitism. I saw a lot.

    I get a kick out of some site naming Ramsey Clark as a traitor to the United States. Why? I’ve met Ramsey and talked to him. He seems like a patriot to me who is trying to bring justice to our country. Is that wrong? Just because you don’t agree with Clark, or others that defended LaRouche, doesn’t mean you’re right and I am wrong.

    People can just walk away from LaRouche — hundreds have — and none of them were murdered, or told to kill themselves. I don’t agree with every utterance LaRouche makes and no one has pressured me to “toe the line” or jump off a bridge because I am a “worthless Boomer” etc.

    If hundreds of former supporters of LaRouche had killed themselves or been murdered LaRouche would be in prison right now. That never happened.

    It isn’t quite as black and white as you attempt to paint it. LaRouche has plenty of people that support him worldwide and they all aren’t brainwashed zombies are they? We could name them right? You obviously follow LaRouche’s activities so you already know that.

    Norbert Brainin is an example. He is dead now. He was Jewish and led the Amadeus Quartet and said LaRouche was a political prisoner. Many others said the same thing: jurists, lawyers, etc. Explain how that worked for me.

    I have no doubt LaRouche was prosecuted for political reasons. Most people get the charges against LaRouche wrong, and often know they’re stating the charges wrong, yet they cling to these delusions. Why? Because they want to believe them.

    I believe LaRouche was getting “too big for his britches” and the “powers that be” moved against them in a way they thought would end LaRouche’s political movement. When the 1986 election victories happened in Illinois — and the reasons given (“the names sounded more American” etc.) — the action started to get heavy. I believe this scared a lot of full time members. It would anyone. Many didn’t sign up to go to prison and guys like Mike Billington (given a 99 year sentence) stood fast. Others left. They didn’t jump off a bridge. I could go into the SDI but you already know about that. You saw who was on TV when Reagan announced the SDI — it was people from the Fusion Energy Foundation’s people. The US has the FOIA and things came out by making requests. There were public calls for Reagan to break any ties with LaRouche and it turned out that the Reagan NSC and CIA were meeting with LaRouche’s associates and you know that. I can go on but to what end.

    We can agree to disagree but I won’t back off your ridiculous charges and statements. Calling me a jerk doesn’t change anything.

    I still stand by the fact that Duggan’s mother is being used to attack LaRouche’s political actions. I am going to state that any new investigation won’t produce any smoking gun of having Duggan murdered because he was Jewish. If that was the case how come Steinberg wasn’t convinced to jump off a bridge? How come the other Jewish members weren’t? It just doesn’t make sense and is nonsense.

    Show me something, anything.

    Anyone can say anything and go “look at my first hand experience” as if it were Gospel. It isn’t.

  35. Earnest One Says:

    Rev writes:

    “Honestly, you come off as a bitter and hateful person. That’s my impression. You call me a “web-based a-hole” but I am a not web-based. I am sitting here in the real world, not the world of blogs and charges and counter-charges.”

    Let’s go back, Rev. You made fun of a trivial spelling error. You wrote:

    “I am not the spelling Nazi, as opposed to the soup Nazi, (pun intended) but it is Leesburg.”

    Yet in the next paragraph, you yourself make a mistake, albeit in usage — something a bit more serious (for Nazis types):

    “I am a fair guy and want to know the truth. I have opinions just like you and my opinion is Duggan’s mother is being used for political reasons. The links at the “Justice” sight kind of prove that to me.”

    The links at the “Justice sight”? Or do you mean “Justice site”?

    Or is it all a joke to you? Leesburg, Leesberg, Jeremiah, Jeremy…

    You are an major a.. hole for bothering to point out a silly mistake about Leesburg while demonstrating that your command of the English language isn’t any better. Typical LaRouchie. A false sense of superiority, belied by the available evidence. Pedantic too.

    You don’t believe my story. Fine. What will you risk on this? Why should I spend any more time with you about it? One measure of a person’s sincerity of belief is the amount (in cash, say) that they would place at risk, to show the degree of confidence that they possess (in their theory, beliefs, or “story”).

    How much will you risk to demonstrate that I am a liar. I’ll put up 10 grand that says that I can convince Justin (for example) beyond any reasonable doubt, that the story I presented, above, is accurate. I have documentation, I have records.

    I’ve already wasted time on you, as evidenced by your responses, above. Now make it worth my while. How about some money? Put something at risk. To-date, I have placed my time at risk, and the return has been abysmal.

    I don’t think you are a fair person. And note – I did not spend the time to spell check this, or to polish it in any way. Attack it as much as you wish.

  36. revenire Says:

    Earnest,

    You’ve got a bone to pick with LaRouche — pick away. A lot of good it will do you. The more you pick the more frustrated you get.

    Bet you 10k that you can convince Justin? Isn’t that illegal? You want to make an illegal bet but are concerned with justice? You’re so full it.

    You’re soooo concerned with justice or is it revenge? Were you some full time LaRouchenik that couldn’t cut it? Is that it? You dropped out and now are one of the Bitter Boys of LaRouche Land? That’s life in the Big City — I thought you said you were tough. They must have tore you a new one for you to still be whining about it.

    Justin will believe anything — he gets his information from blogs. He doesn’t know zip about LaRouche — he didn’t even know Fusion existed. You should get some other drop-out and bring their bitterness and hatred here and tell me how you’re concerned about “justice” when you all know Duggan did exactly what the German authorities ruled. Why even question it? Because you want to “get” LaRouche. Admit it because it is really transparent.

    Justin was supposed to be the Kronberg expert well? I don’t think anyone knows why Ken jumped except Ken and he’s not around to tell us is he? Any suicide note available? If there was and it was something against LaRouche you can bet it would be all over the blogs. You can come up with your crazy conspiracy theories but they amount to zip. It’s pathetic.

    I don’t care how much time you waste here. Get as frustrated as you want. It seems you get bent out of shape pretty easily. Don’t whine to me about how you wasted time. My money is you’re some sort of nut that either was full time in the LC or got annoyed at something said and now you’re a blogger… big deal. Anyone can start a blog buddy. They are all over. You LIKE to waste time on this stuff.

    Duggan’s mother is being played like a fiddle. Let’s see one shred of evidence of foul play. Just one.

    Is it a joke to me? Is what a joke? Duggan’s death? No one’s death is a joke but the mother being used by LaRouche’s political opponents and the drop outs that have nothing better to do but warn off people that can just walk away from the dreaded “cult” are a cruel joke. The links at the “Justice” site are proof enough of the bender they sent the mother on. You talk about manipulation — the mother is the one being manipulated. That’s sick. A sick joke.

    Your fairy tale of being held captive is ridiculous.

    I really don’t care about the return of your investment of your time. You are here for a reason so don’t give me your double-talk. I am not buying your bitter hatred.

    You have documentation and records? Ha. Sure you do. Sell them to Dennis King — he needs fresh material. If you had zip you’d have pressed charges but you didn’t because you made it all up.

    Later drop-out… I am going to watch Colbert and then eat some ice cream.

  37. Earnest One Says:

    Interested readers (if extant) should note that the LaRouche organization has a long and documented history of running dirty tricks against progressive politicians. Moreover, they are well known for viciously attacking, harassing, and hounding ex-members who speak out about conditions inside the organization, especially the cruel and sadistic treatment of both members and non-members.

    This obviously puts quite a damper on people who have something negative to say! Who wants to risk getting roughed up, or worse? The self-proclaimed Rev, above, ignores these key facts and thinks, naively, that one can simply speak out openly without fear of retribution. But perhaps he is not naïve, and is simply trying to collect info for his masters.

    LaRouche is delusional and maintains a vast enemies list. This has practical advantages, as his young believers then go along with the idea that he is an important person. If he wasn’t important, then he would be ignored (or so goes the thinking).

    It is well documented that LaRouche was paid by right-wing fascists to perform dirty trick operations on Democrats and other progressive forces, such as Labor leaders. During the Reagan administration, he was a paid agent of the CIA, as he ran operations abroad “posing” as a progressive, while actually spying on like-minded thinkers; he collected information that was later sold to right wing elements inside our own government. Some of this came out during his trials.

    In terms of attacking critics and enemies, a few examples are sufficient to put a huge chill on others. This is how it works. Look at what BushCo has done to people who criticize his policies, even people who were once loyal members of his staff.

    Many, many people know about LaRouche’s terror tactics but have kept quiet, for a variety of reasons. Some fears are well founded, some not. Certainly there are many ex-members who simply cannot risk saying anything; it takes very little effort for a few of LaRouche’s goons to create havoc. But again, this is well documented.

    A large section of LaRouche’s so-called security staff is devoted to harassing people, and keeping them from speaking out. This includes reporters around the world who write articles.

    The self-proclaimed Rev is pretty far-gone; one simply needs to compare his attitudes to the known facts. Note, however, that he may be right that Duggan’s mother is being used by political opponents of LaRouche. My reply: So what! LaRouche created this situation, if only by the sheer stupidity of his response to the tragedy.

    The Wiesbaden people who had close contact with Jeremiah were quickly sent out of the country and orders were issued for nobody to speak about his death, even in private, amongst themselves. The LaRouchies certainly behaved like guilty people – guilty of something, if not outright murder.

    But LaRouche has probably gained from it all because of the rise in publicity. Note, too, that it reinforces the perception – inside his org — that he is important. Why else would he be under attack from powerful forces, British forces! This is madness, truly, as he has essentially no influence on anything, other than the people trapped inside his bizarre fantasy world, performing slave labor for a dollar or so an hour.

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of LaRouche’s so-called organization. A close relative was captured by them long ago, leading to a 30-year nightmare for my family and me. This accounts for my interest. And, as noted above, I had an extreme encounter with them. An encounter where they threatened the life of a close family member and then tortured me for about a week. Assuming that what I say is true, and knowing the LaRouche organizations “zeal” for dealing with outside “threats”, it is a non-trivial problem to speak out about this matter without risking additional problems.

    The Factnet message board is an excellent source for people who want to learn from the mistakes of others – others that were trapped in this madness for years, but who finally broke free and now have a life, a real life. A life where they can still make a difference in the world, can still pursue idealistic political goals.

  38. Justin Says:

    he didn’t even know Fusion existed.

    What are you talking about? Here’s as far as I can tell, your story with that statement. Larouche had a science magazine called Fusion, presumably about… fusion. I knew that. I have never seen an issue of Fusion. He also had a science magazine called 21st Century Science and Technology. I reviewed the last five issues in the Kremlinological sense. I linked to that blog entry of mine, by way of referencing to your great loving of his science magazines. My knowledge or supposed lack thereof of Fusion did not figure there. It was there that you shouted “MAGAZINES, NOT BLOGS!”, a nonsensical statement, but whatever. You also then went on about Fusion as against 21st Century Science and Technology– and you apparently took my lack of any further comment as a statement of ignorance on Fusion.

    Justin was supposed to be the Kronberg expert well?

    Huh?

    If there was and it was something
    against
    LaRouche you can bet it would be all over the blogs.

    All two of them? Here’s a rub. You seem to think there’s this large contingent of people who think about Larouche. There aren’t. Most people think of Larouche as a pop cultural by-product of the 1980s.

  39. revenire Says:

    “All two of them? Here’s a rub. You seem to think there’s this large contingent of people who think about Larouche. There aren’t. Most people think of Larouche as a pop cultural by-product of the 1980s>”

    What your brain believes I think doesn’t count Justin. Just Google the word LaRouche and tons of blogs, articles, and everything else pops up. “Most” people? Did you poll “most” people? Substitute most for you and a couple of your friends. I see about 3-4 here posting. That’s it. “Most” people are working, etc. and don’t give a damn either way.

    1,380,000 on Google alone for the old man — big deal.

    You don’t like being challenged. Fine. I’m really sorry I spoke my mind (oops, I forgot — LaRouche tells me what to think and say and write) and caused a couple of you to get so strange — trying to accuse me of being on a legal team or trying to find me by pinging me (that was really paranoid of you). Are you actually afraid of someone challenging your words on a blog? You can’t even defend yourself? Your thoughts? You would we weak fodder for a real cult you know that? They’d suck you in like an old Hoover vacuum.

    I surfed here and the paranoia started when I posted one simple question.

    The latest retort is LaRouche is actually happy someone died so he can say “the British” are out to get him (like he hasn’t said that 1000 times). That’s from “Earnest” who doesn’t give a damn about Duggan but has an issue because a relative works for LaRouche. Get over it Earnest. One of my relatives works for Wendy’s (the hamburger joint) and I don’t like their food.

  40. Justin Says:

    Oops. Correction. I neglected to put the usual qualifier “when they think about him at all.”

    Go down the first 3 pages of google and you see a whole mass of stuff from Larouche publications, Rick Ross and Chip Berlet, a National Review article slurring war critics with the label of Larouchism, a Media Matters slurring David Horowitz with the label of Larouchism, and video game fans on Larouche’s latest anti-video game crusade (who have little interest in posting anything about Jeremiah Duggan — the source of my “all 2 of them” comment.)

    Actually I’m having a lot of fun with you. Thanks for stopping by!

  41. Earnest One Says:

    Sorry, Sparky.

    That close relative is now an ex-member, having resigned last year just before the HUGE exodus of older members, especially those in Europe.

    Your great leader (sic), decided to jettison the more expensive labor and go for the younger, cheaper stuff — people who will work for $2 to $5 a day (plus a bowl of soup!).

    LaRoach showed, by example, that he is a master of Nazi economic policies.

    Oh… and Justin is correct about LaRoach’s position in the world. Nobody cares. Those hits you find on Google are due to his vast web of inter-linked websites and various cut and paste posts conducted by his cadre of young “admirers”.

    Nobody cares about this man or his cult movement, save for the families of the “captured” and a few others who must deal with his bizarre, slanderous attacks.

    Get over it?! Yes, of course. And I hope you get over it too and not wake up, one day, and realize that you have wasted the best portion of your life promoting/serving a colossal charlatan.

  42. Rachel Holmes Says:

    I decided to put all the back and forth between Rachel Holmes, whoever she is, and Revenire, whoever she/he is, here too–for completeness’ sake.

    Rachel Holmes:

    October 9th, 2007 at 10:03 am
    The sacrificing of one’s will to a higher commitment toward the Common Good would be appreciated by future generations.

    What the ….?

    God can demand sacrifice, including sacrifice of our will–but another human being, claiming to represent the Common Good? Sounds like Tom Paine-married-Rousseau-married Robespierre and Lenin-on-steroids.

    Was this codswallop written by “revenire”?

    Who the heck is “revenire,” anyhow? I have theories…. A current LCer with a lot of time on his/her hands. Probably in Leesburg (doubt it’s Herndon) (IP addresses are not that accurate when “pinged”–take note, BBoyd and BDirector).

    Herndon, BTW, is one town east of Sterling, where PMR was located and where Ken Kronberg killed himself. Sterling is maybe 10 miles east of Leesburg. So if “revenire” is from Herndon, he/she is right in the Thick of It.

    Is there a connection between “revenire” and your title character?

    Revenire Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 10:56 am
    You have theories? Would those be conspiracy theories? LOL.

    Sorry, Rachel but I am not in Leesburg or a full time LaRouchie… I’ve told the truth but some of you are so paranoid about LaRouche you probably think he has your phone tapped.

    Kronberg jumped. You don’t know why and neither do I. What does Molly say? LaRouche pushed him? If so why haven’t the cops arrested him?

    Ha, if I was a current LCer would I have this much time on my hands? I’d be out trying to meet quota right? LOL…

    Rachel I am just someone who knows what’s what and has followed/supported LaRouche’s positions for a long time. He doesn’t control my life, my wife, my kids or pets.

    I am really sorry you’re so bitter about your experience but honestly couldn’t you have left the organization sooner and that would have been that? I’ve seen people walk away after one meeting and I’ve seen people hang out 30 years. It is a choice not something imposed. You had a choice and maybe made the wrong one and now you’re this bitter woman with an ax to grind and you don’t like to be taken to task over anything you say. Too bad.

    You people have made threats toward me — tried to find out who I was. Pinged me… lol, get some IT experience and try again and if I was as paranoid as some I’d get some mental help.

    Let’s just have an open discussion and you tell me why Kronberg jumped and Earnest can skip the fiction stories. I can read Heine or Schiller for that sort of thing — they are better writers, lol.

    Rachel Holmes Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
    Brushing past the low-hanging boughs of LOL, I will get to the point.

    I think someone has already told you why Kronberg jumped.

    In case you missed it, the thinking among Kronberg’s friends and co-workers is that LaRouche drove him to it with constant attacks and refusal to pay PMR to the tune of X millions of bucks. Of the constant attacks, a number were written down (see FactNet for a sampling). Of the money owed, well, let’s just put it this way: The IRS is aware of it, even if you aren’t.

    The “suicide” briefing of April 11, a masterpiece of LaRouchean agape, was the final straw.

    Then, as a kind of post mortem tribute, LaRouche paraded a whole slew of “explanations”: Kronberg had an illness; Kronberg was a victim of Quijano and Friesecke (?!?!); Kronberg died because the rotten Baby Boomer fundraisers didn’t raise enough money to pay PMR; Kronberg killed himself because in 2004 his wife gave money to Bush–etc. There’s more, but it’s being said only in private (so far), so to protect my sources, I let it rest.

    As to Molly, with whom you are apparently on a first-name basis, if you don’t already know what she’s saying, you’re the only LaRouche supporter on the planet who doesn’t (except the LYMers, who barely know who these people are).

    You may think it waggish to suggest that she says LaRouche pushed Kronberg, but somehow, the humor seems misplaced.

    And by the way, who on earth is “you people”? Which “you people” is that who have threatened you and pinged you and who knows what all else?That strikes me as being “as paranoid as some people,” but anyhoo–

    I did what you asked: Open discussion on why Kronberg jumped. Can you be equally open, and leave the guffaws to one side, as being inappropriate to the topic?

    Rachel Holmes Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
    By the way (LOL), you’d be surprised how many “current LCers” just sit around their houses doing not much–with strange lingering diseases, or “undeployability,” or …. There’s a whole troop of them. Casualties of the aversive conditions, I guess, but afraid to leave because 30 years ago, they checked their identities at the door when they went through Security.

    Justin Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
    You people have made threats toward me

    No we haven’t.

    Rachel Holmes Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
    Wow! I just read all the drivel revenire posted. What a confusion swirls in that brain.

    Speaking slowly and carefully, Revenire.

    (1) LaRouche attacked Ken Kronberg for years. Many of the attacks were in print. Some have been put up on FactNet, others–not yet. LaRouche accused Kronberg of scamming the organization (see NC conference call posted on FactNet; Kronberg was on the call). What a guy, that LaRouche, eh?

    (2) The April 11 briefing, based on a meeting at LaRouche’s house the preceding evening and written by LaRouche amanuensis Tony Papert, attacked Kronberg by attacking the “print shop”–run by and owned by Kronberg–as “the worst.” And then came the suicide suggestion. Maybe you haven’t jumped yet (as you proudly note, adding that you are a Boomer, as if we didn’t know that already) because you didn’t own and run the print shop, you weren’t the “worst,” and LaRouche didn’t have a bee in his bonnet about you.

    You say you’ve heard people say that LaRouche ordered Duggan’s murder? That gives some surprise. I haven’t heard that, and I’m in the Not a Big Fan of LaRouche category. What I have heard is a lot of people wondering what did happen, exactly, and wishing for a clear picture, and wondering why on earth LaRouche and Bruce Director are knocking themselves out to oppose an investigation, if the Schiller Institute had nothing to do with Duggan’s death.

    That’s what I’ve heard. I doubt very much you’ve heard what you claim to have heard, unless perhaps through supernatural means or the implants in your teeth.

    All that twaddle about Big Guys believing LaRouche and taking him seriously and Russian Academicians and Fusion magazine and stuff and nonsense! You telling Justin he didn’t do his homework? Are you kidding? Fusion magazine proves what, again?

    Also, when you asked if someone was calling Anton Chaitkin a zombie, were you serious? Did you ever actually read his stuff?

    Most offensive of all is what I might call your heavy-handed lightmindedness about these deaths. You obviously know perfectly well what the assertions are about Kronberg’s death, so you’re just embarrassing yourself with the assumed naivete.

    Rachel Holmes Says:

    October 9th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
    And another thing….

    Revenire, you posted by mistake to an old post, but I just found your comments from today about Fred Wills, Nick Benton, Lopez Portillo, and so forth.

    1. Could you please spell out for me what impact Lopez Portillo had on the world? Describe how Operation Juarez transformed the universe, and do it in detail, please. Because you know, thinking back on it all, I don’t believe it made the slightest difference.

    2. As to Nick Benton, you are certainly a class act, revenire, with your oh-so-subtle remarks, innuendos, whispers, insinuations. Don’t make any assumptions as to what I do or do not know–and try to be more of a gentleman, for heaven’s sake.

    3. On former Guyanese Foreign Minister and Justice Minister Fred Wills–did you say he never wavered in his support of LaRouche? Did you eat the wrong kind of mushroom again?

    Fred Wills came to the conclusion that LaRouche had “lost the mantle of heaven,” and he specifically pointed to LaRouche’s grotesque mishandling of the legal cases of the end of the ’80s/beginning of the ’90s as the reason why, commenting on LaRouche’s cowardice and hysteria as NOT being good qualities for a Maximum Leader to exhibit.

    As lawyers know, and any legal folk of your acquaintance could tell you, it’s not a good idea to open a can of worms (or ask a question, or open a door), when you don’t know what’s in the can, or in the answer, or lurking behind the door.

    So in the future, don’t presume to tell me what Fred Wills thought.

  43. revenire Says:

    I knew Fred Wills. Let’s see public statements by Wills denouncing LaRouche. Fred died in 1993 and I didn’t see any denouncement of LaRouche by Fred anyplace at all… maybe LaRouche hid it in a closet? Show me just one statement by Fred denouncing LaRouche. Your personal anecdotes, while amusing, aren’t facts. Wills stood up at the UN on September 23, 1976 to address the United Nations Security Council and demand a Third World debt moratorium (this has been a political progam of LaRouche for God knows how long).

    Wills said at the UN:

    “The billions on this planet who live in the developing countries and whose existence is subjected to the constraints of the few who manipulate to their advantage the present-day economic system, have pinned their hopes on the modest programme put forward in Nairobi and elsewhere. Their determination is adamant, inexorable and relentless. The IMF and the Bretton Woods monetary system must give way to alternative structures such as the international development banks, which are not geared to the revival and reconstruction of Europe nor preferential arrangements for the developed market economies, but rather to the just distribution of the gains of an equitable global system….”

    That is from Wikipedia. I’ve heard Fred speak dozens of times and always enjoyed his Shakespeare. I am presuming to to tell you what the man thought.

    This was also when the Non-Aligned Movement was also promoting a debt moratorium worldwide and LaRouche was advocating dropping the debt bomb on the banking system that was/is looting the Third World. Do I really need to go into the history of this movement (not just LaRouche’s but the one of the Non-Aligned and their allies)? The Third World has allies in France and Italy that were going to go with state to state deals but that threatened the economic power of financial interests. This really isn’t a new thing in history Rachel. We had a revolution in the United States over similar issues. India had one. Many nations did… you also know that. I can read the book written by FDR’s son that indicates the issue: FDR wanted to end the colonialism — all of it — after WW II but the British objected didn’t they? Now this isn’t LaRouche saying this Rachel but the son of FDR and you know the book “As He Saw It” and if you don’t go read it — LaRouche didn’t write it and it won’t bite you or make you join a cult.

    Indira Gandhi had a similar program for Third World development, including debt moratorium. I believe you know that too. I assume you just don’t sit around and think up replies to my poor words but you also read history too. I am not talking about history as written by LaRouche either. There is ample evidence of what I wrote above.

    Portillo’s nationalization of the banks of Mexico didn’t have any impact on the world. That’s your opinion isn’t it? His actions — currency controls etc. — we’re designed to work in concert with Brazil and Argentina but they were threatened and the people involved have stated what sort of threats they received. You know? I can think of things like cutting off medicine offhand. Coups. The case of Allende comes to mind but you know who overthrew Allende — anyone who is a student of history does. If a leader of a nation bucks the system they get in trouble. If a politician in the United States bucks the system they get into trouble too. You should know all this. It has been written about, and not in LaRouche publications. Operation Juarez failed Rachel and you know that too. Nonetheless, Portillo showed courage and took action. He was denounced by neoliberals (I suppose we would call them conservatives in the United States) and again I will assume you know that. You can just go to Wikipedia and read about what I just wrote above. To state it had no impact would be a falsehood. The New York Times said that Portillo’s actions set off a “worldwide debt crisis” and you say that isn’t impact? LaRouche met with Portillo May 23, 1982 and Portillo took action in September of ’82. One could go back and look at how the financial press etc. reacted. Go ahead. To state this had no impact is rather dishonest.

    I don’t need to prove impact because when a nation nationalizes its banks there is a reaction, just as when Mohammad Mossadegh nationalized Iran’s oil and a coup, directed by the UK and the US, overthrew him. LaRouche didn’t advise Mohammad Mossadegh to do that and there are books on this not written by LaRouche that document the coup.

    I can talk just normally without the LOLs but we have to agree to be civil on matters.

    On the matter of Benton — there was a little bit of a secret Nick had no? Wasn’t that why he left? No? Do tell. Perhaps you should check it out and ask one of the ex-Labor Committee members or if you’re an ex-LCer then you should know or maybe you just stood outside Post Offices for 2 cents a day and shouted at strangers. I don’t know. Post the story here. I’d love to hear your version of events.

    I don’t care about opening any cans, doors, questions, etc. Rachel. We’re just talking and I know what I am talking about.

    I am not embarrassing myself here Rachel. This is a group of self-admitted LaRouche-haters. One guy had a relative who escaped “the cult”, you I have no idea about. I don’t care either.

    I am not serious enough about Duggan or Kronberg? I take anyone’s death seriously but their deaths are being used as a political wedge to attack LaRouche politically.

    How many people die every single day in Iraq? I don’t know. How about Iran? I mean from US-UK operations that are documented amply, and not on LaRouche sites. How many children? Yet here you few are going on about Duggan and Kronberg like they were the only people who are dead.

    This whole “justice” campaign is a fraud in my opinion. I realize that doesn’t mean a hill of beans to you and that’s fine but don’t presume to tell me what I should think. I can hold my own against a few bitter kooks that use dead people to attack someone politically. It is like Bush waving the flag of the 9.11 dead to attack Iraq. It stinks.

    You want earnest discourse then cut the crap. I don’t care if you hate LaRouche or love LaRouche. What does it matter? I don’t work full time for the man and never have. I have never had a relative who worked full time for him either but I sure know damn well anyone can walk away from his movement any single day of the week without jumping off a bridge. You make assumptions based on your stated bias and then except me to swallow it.

    If you have something on Wills that is beyond “I know this to be true because I say so” then show me and I will change my mind but if you don’t then shut up about Wills.

    I am not here to insult you, or anyone else, personally. I’ve been told I am in a cult etc.

    Frankly, no one here even knows me and I honestly surfed over here while surfing the web. Politics has always fascinated me and LaRouche has always interested me — I always wondered what the story was on the guy and I don’t believe the drop outs, the ones with relatives they didn’t like associating with the man, the naysayers without proof. I believe LaRouche was framed up because he was effective. I think FOIA requests and the trials proved that.

    If you think American justice system it flawless please tell me about all the men and women on death row that could be proven either innocent or guilty with DNA tests and they are being executed. Same with the drug lobby… the banks that launder the money get a slap on the hand, if that, but the small fish go to prison. You disagree?

    I enjoy talking politics and have enjoyed this site but the bitterness and hatred of LaRouche signals to me some sort of emotional problems of the people that have these irrational emotions. Maybe I am wrong. I am just a man and not always right. That’s the biggest olive branch you are getting from me because I think you have a real bias that, so far, hasn’t been explained very well.

  44. Earnest One Says:

    Alas, some ex-members, who escaped (semi-intact), have explained it pretty well.

    How about reading their first-hand accounts of the “living prison”?

    Or listen to that BBC interview with a long-time German member who finally escaped in the late 1980s. She talks about how people joined who “really didn’t want to join” (gee, I wonder how they accomplished that magical feat!).

    Depending on the year, I agree with about 70% to 95% of LaRoach’s positions on major issues. He used to be one of the ONLY public politicians to speak out and present sane policy positions.

    But so what? That is a necessary but NOT a SUFFICIENT condition for support.

    His publications, speeches, and press releases are always accompanied by madness — madness that DETRACTS from the intellectual and moral arguments. It is almost as if his REAL purpose is to poison the very positions that he seeks to promote. Quite frankly, I think he works for Cheney, directly. His radio spots against him two years ago were so bizarre that they surely helped Cheney.

    There are two ways to attack a position. Attack it directly, or promote it but do a poor job. Whatever LaRoach promotes he destroys.

    Look at LaRoach’s writings now. His mind has deteriorated so far (or his psychosis has finally surfaced to a full Monty-type public flourish) that now the famous LYN automatic memo generator produces far more interesting (and useful) material. LaRoach is being pummeled by Norbert Wiener and John von Neumann!

    Can you explain THAT? Surely it isn’t simply a statistical anomaly… Click that memo button. Time after time you get pure genius. And it’s hilarious too.

  45. rachel holmes Says:

    Jeez, I know what Fred thought because he told me.

    How’s that, Revenire?

    And of course, as you may or may not know, the org was having him investigated during the New York trial–so presumably the Security/Legal honchos thought Fred wasn’t 100% with the program. Just ask Dennis Small for his unvarnished opinion.

    “I knew Fred Wills,” you write.

    Not well enough.

  46. Frau Helga Says:

    Revenire’s been a busy culty:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2007/08/is-countrywide-.html

    Note his use of the phrase “mortal coil” — a LaRouchie shibboleth if there ever was one.

    And this is just priceless:

    “I did some Googling of my own and if LaRouche is this crazy whack job he sure had some big boys conned into listening to him.”

    That’s right, and you are one of them. It’s like that old poker saying, “if you don’t know who the sucker is at the table, its you.” Silly Revenire, still falling prey to a scam uncovered twenty years ago.

    These guys are pathetic and utterly transparent. Give it up Barbara; hang up your hat Jeff; suck it up Tony C: playtime is over. Time to think about another line of work for the short time left on your own “mortal coil.”

    My own prediction (which is always right and cannot be disputed): you have a bight future in license plate manufacturing.

  47. Frau Helga Says:

    A clue to Revenire’s identity comes from this health law chat board, where someone of the same name claims to have been “something of a political animal in that I’ve run for US Congress, State Assembly and other posts.”

    But not won any of them.

    http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?p=903243#post903243

    Noting also that he claims his name is derived from Latin, another LaRouche affectation.

    Also, he also has a defense there too about his good intentions, after the serious people there called it into doubt:

    “I am not an internet troll. Seriously, my sister-in-law told me of this forum and that is the truth.”

  48. Justin Says:

    And this is just priceless:

    “I did some Googling of my own and if LaRouche is this crazy whack job he sure had some big boys conned into listening to him.”

    1 plus 1 = 11.

    The other reason that is particularly hilarious is because he has later expaned his purview of his knowledge in Larouche such that, you know, he’d know full well about “Larouche hanging with the big boys” before it was possible to be “doing some Googling” — a bit of running on the fly here.

  49. Rachel Holmes Says:

    Mortal coil comes from Hamlet–“Shuffle off this mortal coil,” the mortal coil being the body, shuffling it off being dying. Lindy has all sorts of theories about Hamlet.

    Revenire means to return, come back, etc. in Latin–although LaRouche doesn’t know Latin and went through a period of yelling and screaming how Latin is a “fascist imperialist” language incapable of expressing high thoughts (which is why St. Augustine, Leibniz, Cusa, and others wrote in it no doubt).

    Not sure what revenire’s interest in Latin is, one way or the other, but one thing’s for sure, he’s not some bucolic Midwesterner.

    Otherwise, for someone who just stumbled across this site (so he says), he is strangely anxious to prove himself conversant with all sorts of secrets known only to the inner elites (why did Nick leave? What does Molly say? the “old man”/I knew Fred Wills) on and on. Snore.

    If you’re just a lonesome surfer who has supported and followed LaRouche from afar all these years, Revenire (any relation to Revenant?), how’d you get into the, as it were, Privy Council? (I’m sure you remember all those dumb jokes.)

  50. revenire Says:

    Lonesome surfer… sounds like a Hank Williams song. Is that approved by my Lord and Master? I do admit I like Hank Williams. I also love Mekons.

    Bucolic? I am an alcoholic. (Aren’t all the LCers really into booze big time — they have to drink to keep from cracking up.)

    Nick Benton left for reasons other than a disagreement with Lindy over “policy” didn’t he? Oh, yes he certainly did.

    My name is Latin for return. Yes, but LaRouche was yelling at me “Latin is a fascist language” so I just hummed a tune (Paul Weller’s Heavy Soul — great song) and kept stirring the gruel up for our tired, stalwart LYM.

    I saw the French model today and she’s being kept under wraps because this one is too rich, too beautiful, and too eager to let any Boomer near her. One — how do you say — ‘yute’ was undressing her with his eyes and the “security team” promptly read him old Campaigners. The youth looked like a wet noodle after 40 hours of readings. I saw a bright light, a dark room and some guys that said they were from a splinter group called the Webster Tarpley Brigade were singing Christmas carols with weird lyrics. I averted my eyes and ran screaming into the street. I had some homemade leaflets announcing my own webcast entitled “Bitter Ex-Members Share Anecdotes For Years”. Was that a good title? I should have run it through my new machine: the Drop-Out Device. It generates old slanders that can only be read by new eyes. Don’t ask me how I did it because I could never get beyond two-three sentences on any subject in EIR.

    The truth is out.

    I am going to watch Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader (I am not) and see if I can win a couple of zillion because I have to give it all to Lyndon.

    I will talk to you guys tomorrow or Saturday, depends on quota.

    Rachel when you said “Privy Council” I felt something move.

  51. Rachel Holmes Says:

    Yes, you also no doubt remember Lyn’s endless tiresome jokes about taking a leak, every time he had to leave a meeting to go to the bathroom.

    I know about Revenire–but do you know about Revenant? That’s what you don’t want to become….

    And lastly–you have told us a few times how nice you are–or, to be accurate, that you are nice or can be nice. So what I can’t figure out is, if you’re so nice, why the harping on Nick Benton’s reasons for leaving?

  52. revenire Says:

    I am not harping on it Rachel but let’s be honest here and you know as well as I do Nick didn’t leave because he was sick of Lyndon’s stale jokes or became disenchanted with the LC.

    I am not a corpse that has returned from the grave — the Revenant reference. LOL, I wish I could return from the grave but that might be something a Scientologist could tell me I can do or a member of Benny Hinn’s cult but so far LaRouche has not added that sort of “immortality” — off a zuvembie — to his list. Life’s too short, either way, but coming back as the living dead is not something I’d like — you’re right. Good reference.

    In an odd way Rachel, I like you. I know you can’t stand LaRouche and have your reasons but you have a good sense of humor. We don’t agree on some things but probably agree on others.

    You know people leave for different reasons and it isn’t always Big Bad LaRouche drove them out because they were Boomers. It isn’t an easy life: being a full time LC member and you know that. I give the ones who have hung on a lot of credit.

    Just the thought of prison would have been enough to shatter a lot of organizations but it didn’t shatter the LC. It did cause things to happen and people to leave though.

    Take care.

  53. Rachel Holmes Says:

    The thought of prison wasn’t what did me in as a LaRouchie, though believe me, most of us weren’t thrilled (a few were, but that’s a different study in pathology). It was the Thought of LaRouche, in all senses in which that genitive construction can be construed.

    More recently, long after my initial epiphanies, if you will, a friend of mine jumped off an overpass in Sterling, Va. Now this was someone I knew well….

    So that wasn’t great either. And I do lay blame on the old stone doorstep at Windy Hill for that one.

    Anyhow, on your other comment: Not only would we like each other, we probably did like each other, when we were both in the org (because I am assuming that you were and are)….

  54. revenire Says:

    Yeah, I had a friend — not associated with the LC at all — and he blew his brains out. He was bi-polar and given the state of our health ‘safety net’ wasn’t getting his meds etc. He was at the end of his rope and took his life. I blame the ‘system’ for his death and, like it or not, LaRouche’s proposals for the economy could have turned things around for a hell of a lot of people. You see it otherwise I know and I know losing a friend, or a relative, or any death hits home. I can sympathize with you on that.

    I am not not in the “org” Rachel. I would just come out and say so if I was. I don’t care about that. I am proud to be associated with LaRouche. I am close to the LC and have many friends: some are out and some are in. Thirty years is a long time and you make friends with folks.

    I know you blame Lyn for Ken’s death. That is loud and clear. We can agree to disagree no? I know you like me now or you’d tell me to take a flying leap (not a joke about Ken).

    This whole blog likes me and get a lot of mileage out of having someone who support LaRouche here. You guys get to kick me. 😉

  55. Rachel Holmes Says:

    True enough–every comic likes a straight man, every polemicist likes a foil.

    On Kronberg’s death, good heavens, what basis do you have for disagreeing that LaRouche was to blame? “Gossip” and rumors from within the org?

    Now interestingly, BBoyd got all het up once a few months ago at Molly Kronberg (this would be when they were still speaking at all), and yelled at her that she was running around saying that LaRouche deliberately killed Ken.

    Molly said, No, I never said deliberately. I just said he killed him.

    This is of a piece with Odd One’s thing on FactNet about the murder of Ken Kronberg (who said murder?) and the fracas here between you and Earnest One over stabbing vs. stuck it to.

    There are a lot of mighty touchy people in the LaRouche org, superdefensive about Kronberg and Duggan, but at the same time insisting there’s no connection between LHL and the org and those deaths.

    (Sort of like Bruce Director’s boomerang letter to British MPs saying we had nothing to do with Jeremiah’s death, and by the way, don’t you dare try to reopen the investigation.)

    Anyhow, what basis do you have for disagreeing about the connection between LaRouche’s behavior and Kronberg’s death? Do you have the secret memo where LaRouche tells Kronberg what a great guy Kronberg is?

    Because the rest of us have read the memos where LaRouche lacerates Kronberg, over a period of a couple of years–which might have been tolerable if these bozos had at least paid their bills to PMR, rather than driving it into the ground.

    (See FactNet recent discussions.)

    I am thinking of reposting all the relevant memos on FactNet, since I think there are a lot of LaRouche folk wandering around who haven’t digested it all yet.

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